I was just surfing the net when I came across this live dialogue.
Tell me please what rights have been given to us so far?
Thanks.
Answer
Susan says: The rights in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Conventions dealing with rights.
I'm not an expert on human rights -- I can only say that the Beijing documents don't give any new international rights -- that was established by the debate this past week. Some people wanted to use these documents to say that they had new sexual and reproductive health rights (abortion), but it was established by the many speeches that it was commonly understood that these documents don't give new rights -- they are not legally binding documents.
Aicha says: Some women's rights which are established in UN treaties are the right to education, equality between men and women in general life, and human rights, equal opportunities in employment, financial independence, the right to live in peace, and to have access to health and social services. These are some of the most important rights established for women.
Name
leila
- United Kingdom
Profession
housewife
Question
As-salamu `alaykum.
There has been a lot of crying out for rights lately ... women's rights, homosexuals' rights, etc.
As a housewife and a mother, I was wondering if the call on women's rights will benefit me in any way?
Answer
Susan says: Many of these discussions depend on the country, and the culture and custom that exists within the country. In the UK I don't expect it would change much (as it would not in the US), unless you believed that "women's rights" includes abortion and homosexual rights -- which we do not. In Kenya, where I spend much of my year, the right to inheritance is very important. Many women are forced out of their homes when their husbands die. Other "rights" might be needed in a country, that are generally enjoyed in the US.
Aicha says: As-salamu `aAlaykum. The call to women's rights is a humanitarian call which we should enjoin, and there are many positive aspects to it which are specific to women such as the rights which we previously mentioned--such as the right to education, and general human rights, etc.
We as women want to protect the humanitarian and moral values, we should fight within the scope of justice and fairness against corruption and immorality, and in our religion there are many rights for women even more so than what have been established by the UN. We should hold fast to them and fight for them, and as women we should clarify that the call to immoral rights such as homosexuality and abortion are not from women's rights, rather they are against humanity, and especially against what is in the interest of women.
Name
Amal
- Egypt
Profession
Question
As-salamu `alayikum.
I was wondering if religion either Islam or Christianity serve the purpose of the pro-family agenda and how far does it assist in this program?
Answer
Susan says: Religion is very important! United Families International has the "Five Respects" by which we judge every document being negotiated at the UN. They are: 1. Family, 2. Human Life, 3. Parents, 4. Religious Values, and 5. Sovereignty. There is some good language in the UN documents which protect religion; however, some people are not aware of the information. For example, in the International Covenant on Political Rights it says that the parents have the right to determine the education of their children, to be in conformance (not exact words) with their religion. In other words, parents have the right to teach their children the religious values they choose. This is very important!
Aicha says: Wa `alaykum as-salam. Of course religion supports the concept of the family, and protects its existence, the Islamic Shari`ah is built around the protection of five principles: life, religion, progeny, property, honor. This leads to the protection of the family and its existence. Religion enjoins obedience to parents, and treating them well, just as it also enjoins parents to care for their children, whether they be boys or girls, with no difference in the care between them. It also enjoins keeping relations with relatives. In this way religion supports any movement which strives to protect the family and its existence with the condition that the family is normal (made up of a man and a woman).
Name
Jonas..
-
Profession
Question
What is new about protecting women's rights?
Answer
Susan says: This is a hard question for me, because in my country there is nothing really "new". But, as I said earlier, in Kenya where I live most of the year, there is much need for the basic rights of women. But it isn't really the writing of new rights, it's the implementation. Much of that is in the culture, and the way people treat one another. For example, my husband treats me with respect, and treats me as an equal--so I don't need new rights. But, in Kenya, many women are treated as "below" her husband, and she doesn't have property rights, etc.
Aicha says: As-salamu `alaykum. There is really nothing new to be established in women's rights as the Islamic Shari`ah already has established the full code of women's rights for her. However, the reality is that most countries are not fully applying these rights. Additionally, we see a definate gap in the human rights which are established by international treaties and the full rights which Islam establishes for women.
To make things worse, some international treaties establish policies which aim to correct social problems present in some societies (such as the rights to reproductive health services which includes distributing contraceptives to school children and teaching about STDs, etc.) However, these policies actually are harmful to women who are in societies which do not accept such immoral social practices. Thus there is much work to establish the full Islamic rights for women, and to abolish the harmful policies which are being pushed on women by international treaties. Many of the new policies which are being enacted are not actually rights, but rather they are leaving the God-given human nature. Examples of such are the right to choose one's gender and homosexual marriage.
Name
Sali
-
Profession
Question
What is the overall atmosphere of this conference? Is it as bad as the others in terms of demonstrations, etc.? I heard there was jeering and catcalling when [US] Amb. Sauerbrey spoke.
Answer
Susan says: I first need to clarify that there are no international treaties that establish a human right to "homosexual marriage" or other "rights" based on sexual orientation. Those who want those rights established work very hard to make people believe that documents or treaties establish this right--but it has always been rejected--and I must say that the Muslim countries have been very helpful!
As to the speech by Ambassador Sauerbrey, there was a lot of "demonstrating" of positions in the gallery of the NGOs by clapping and booing. And, yes, they did boo the Ambassador when she mentioned that there was a general agreement that the Beijing documents do not create a right to abortion, or any other new human rights. It is not acceptable to demonstrate in the UN either by signs or making noise, etc. But, the chairman of the Plenary session seemed to be willing to let these demonstrations to occur.
Another issue that was booed was the mention of the teaching of abstinence as it relates to the prevention of HIV/AIDS, and being faithful to one's partner. I think it could generally be said that these radical feminists are against any programs or language that promotes morality--which is the only thing that can adequately sustain society.
Aicha says: As-salamu `alaykum. I think that Susan has adequately answered the question. We would just add that there was a strong pro-family and Islamic movement in order to lobby the delegates to hold fast to their reservations which they originally stated in the Beijing agreement.
Name
Keiko
-
Profession
Question
It seems that the pro-family lobby is often very negative. They don't want abortion rights, gay rights, pre-marital sex, etc. Can you look at it a bit more positively? What DOES the pro-family lobby want? Are there any GOOD things from these women's conferences?
Answer
Susan says: I have written a positive Family Resolution that we are trying to get support for this next week. It is too long to include here, but I would like to send it to you and have it posted on your site. We really need support for this Resolution--both for this conference and for conferences in the future. It is basically formulated by the "good" language from the Beijing documents--and urging governments to write family-friendly policies and evaluate their government actions as to how they can strengthen the family.
I think if you will look at the Five Respects I mentioned above that you will see they are all positive. We support recognition of the family as the basic unit of society (rather than treating everyone as only an individual), protecting human life (both the unborn and the aged), recognizing the rights of parents to be involved in the decisions regarding their minor children, recognizing the right of parents to teach their children the religious values they believe in, and recognizing the sovereign right of a country to apply the language of these international documents (the conference documents) in accordance with their country laws and legislative directives.
All of these respects can be substantiated by language in the international treaties and the UN conference documents. I have prepared a UN Negotiating Guide, with 24 international treaties and documents, that indexes the "good" language [available from www.unitedfamilies.org]. We need to become acquainted with the language which supports pro-family values.
Aicha says: As-salamu `alaykum. We have already mentioned some of the postive positions which we take when we mentioned some of the rights that we would like to be established and which we work to establish their legislation. When we speak of the rights of women in education, financial independence, participation in public and polictical life, and empowerment of women--I believe that all of these are positive positions, especially when we put plans to be instituted and put into practice. I would like to add that when we work to relieve the pain of poverty in societies, of course this includes women. It may be that you see what you term as negative, and that is because we must raise our voices when we are faced with legislation which is harmful to women and family values.
Name
Kareem
- Australia
Profession
Question
As-salamu `alaykum.
I want to know the role of Muslim organizations in protecting or opposing women's rights in the last conference held in Beijing.
Answer
Susan says: I have been hoping for this question, because I want to make it very clear that much of the "good" language we have in the first Beijing conference, and in the Outcome Document of Beijing +5 is because of the strong and courageous delegations from the Muslim countries (obviously supported by the women in Muslim NGOs). So far, at this conference, we haven't had that strong coalition because of the political situation in the world. I miss this, and hope this next week we can get together again and work toward our common pro-family goals.
Aicha says: As-salamu `alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh.
I was not present in Beijing so I can't speak about that, but I would like to add that there were representatives from many Islamic countries, like Malaysia, Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Yemen, and the US and Gulf countries in our coalition which represented various Islamic NGOs from around the world. All of these organizations work together to have a stronger effect in defending the rights of women and the family, and we issued a joint statement. This coalition had an important role in trying to convince the official Arab and Islamic delegations to adopt the document while holding fast to their reservations [in the original Beijing document]. We do need more support from other Arab and Islamic organizations, and we hope that in the future other Arab and Islamic organizations will be present to help us in defending the rights of women and families.
Name
Umm Mustafa
-
Profession
Question
The pro-family lobby seems very happy that pro-abortion NGOs admitted that the Beijing documents do not create the right to abortion. But the Beijing document itself is linked to CEDAW, and we all know that the CEDAW committee is pushing for liberal abortion laws. So is it really such a big deal if they admit that BEIJING doesn't make abortion a right--they still have CEDAW to call upon.
Answer
Susan says: I should first point out that CEDAW has not been ratified by the US Senate, and much of the reason is because it is being used to promote abortion. However, it is true that the CEDAW Commission, as it evaluates the reports of various countries, is pushing to get countries to legalize abortion--which the US opposes, and which United Families International opposes.
However, the problem for the US is the gradual creation of what judges can determine to be international norms, or "customary law." The Beijing document is widely used in the world, and therefore the intent of that document is very important to keep it from being cited as contributing to a perceived right to abortion. I was involved in a meeting with the Danish delegation this week, and they could not understand how the courts could use "customary law" to make decisions. But, a case in point is the Massachusetts Supreme Court which legalized same-sex marriage. In other states in the US, where the constitutions did not specifically state that marriage is between a man and a woman, other courts have been saying that same-sex marriage is legal. However, the citizens of the US have been putting this issue on the ballot, and so far 13 more states have constitutional amendments establish marriage as between a man and a woman.
Aicha says: As-salamu `alaykum. Because of this, the Coalition of Islamic Organizations pushed that the reservations of each country be recorded in the official report of this document. We were intent that it be noted that the Beijing Document included the right that religious values and cultures be respected, and that countries can determine abortion laws through their legislative processes. In this way countries are able to stand their ground and protect their societies from the pressure that the CEDAW Committee is trying to put on the governments of countries.
Name
Usman K. Maiyaki
- Nigeria
Profession
Worker.
Question
Fundamental human rights is such a broad based phenomenum, that it equally captures the right of the Muslim woman to dress in a manner befitting of her religion. My question is, against the backdrop of the European stance on the mode of dressing among Muslim women in schools and elsewhere, do we see parallels that can be drawn from this development in New York City or elsewhere in America? In particular, are Muslims in New York/America, within the context of democratic principles, working on a common front to forestall possible widespread disregard/condemnation of hijab which today is being presented as a symbol of oppression and a negation of Muslim women's rights. How do we educate these people? What legal initiatives can be explored to protect Muslim women from situations similar to what currently exist in France and Germany where Muslim women are faced with the dilema of migrating in order to fulfil their aspirations of further education?
Answer
Susan says: Since I am not a Muslim, it is hard for me to give an educated answer to this question. But I will say that I have known a number of Muslim women, and they were proud to wear the hijab, noting that it was a representation of modesty. However, I will admit that the wearing of the hijab in America right now makes it difficult for the Muslim women because of the difficult relations with some of the Muslim countries. As to whether there are attempts to change the law, I should point out that we don't have school uniforms in the US, and the students are allowed to wear what they want (within reason). I don't expect there will ever be an effort to stop the Muslim women from wearing the clothing of their choice.
Aicha says: There is a contradiction between the call to human rights and preventing Muslim women from wearing clothing which covers her body, and which she believes is an important part of her life. When the Muslim woman is prevented from wearing her hijab, it is a clear attack on the most basic human right in the area of freedom of religion and personal choice. We consider preventing women from wearing hijab in schools to be an attack which pushes Muslim women and girls to leave school and this contradicts their right to education.
The organizations in civil society of all different views must work to preserve the Muslim woman's right to choose her dress, and we as an Islamic coalition also work in coordination with other organizations to widen the scope of Muslim women's rights like those of the rest of women in the world.
The position of France and other European countries is one which is against human rights and has no relation to democracy and not even to secularism. Rather, it is an abuse towards Muslim women which should be addressed by all human rights organizations and those which support women and families.
Here in the United States, generally women do not face a lot of problems in wearing hijab, and those that do often resolve their problems by working through an organization known as CAIR. However, there are some prejudices which still remain and some which have increased since Sept. 11 on personal levels which are harder to fight. Also I would just like to make a note, the American University in Cairo has established a policy forbidding women from wearing niqab (face veil). Dr. Iman Taha Az-Zeini has raised her case to the Egyptian courts and won the case, but the American University is still refusing to implement the Egyptian court's verdict establishing her right to wear her niqab.
Name
Maryam
-
Profession
Question
It seems from news reports that the declaration prepared by the commission last week was accepted by the delegates yesterday. So what will happen next week? What more is going on at this conference?
Answer
Susan says: Resolutions have been filed by various countries. The deadline for filing these resolutions was 5 p.m. on Friday. On Monday morning we will be able to get copies of the resolutions. These resolutions will be negotiated next week.
