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Session Details
Guest Name R.  Nur, Human Rights Lawyer
Subject Darfur Now: A Look into the Humanitarian Situation
Date Thursday,Jan 19 ,2006
Time Makkah
From
... 18:00...To... 19:00
GMT
From
... 15:00...To...16:00
 
Name
Rahma    - 
Profession
Question Do you think racial issues play an important role in the Darfur crisis or is it primarily a political and economic conflict?
Answer Dearest Rahma,

The conflict in Darfur has many reasons: racial, political and economic.

Dozens of ethnic groups inhabit Darfur, groups of Arab and African origin who lived peacefully side by side in the past. The majority is non-Arab farmers of African origin. Among them, the largest ethnic group is the Fur.

The Arab groups have complained of political marginalization by the Fur. The Fur, Masalit and Zaghawa complain of political marginalization by the Sudanese government. Since the current government took power through a military coup in 1989, it has changed administrative systems and taken other measures that are perceived to be supporting the political and economic cause of the Arab ethnic groups.

Darfur is a very poor region, almost entirely dedicated to subsistence agriculture and livestock herding for domestic and export purposes. The settled Fur and the other African population have farmed the most fertile parts of central Darfur for generations, usually producing a surplus.

Northern Darfur is an area impacted by desertification. For years, mostly Arab nomads from this area, who take their livestock from the dry north to better water and grazing lands in the south every dry season, had been moving into southern Darfur earlier and earlier. This has brought them into conflict with the farmers, whose crops have been trampled on and consumed by herds of camels or cattle. Some of the African communities resorted to self-defense groups in the 1990s to protect their crops, homes, and families from increasing incursions by the Arab camel, or horse-mounted raiders, many of whom had also been armed over the past decades.

 
Name
Aziz    - Egypt
Profession
Question How much does race and ethnicity figure into this conflict? I feel the Western media are exagerrating the Arab-vs-Negro issue... I heard the people on the ground are intermarried, and almost indistinguishable...

Additionally, what about religion? Some are portraying it as an issue of "Muslim" raiders fighting animists, etc.
Answer Dearest Mr. Aziz,

Let me start by the second part of your question:

There is no religious conflict. Almost all Darfurians are Muslims. I have no knowledge of "Muslim" raiders fighting animists.

As for the first part of your question, the word "negro" in itself is a lot of racisim, so let's keep the terminology “Africans” and “Arabs.” I am not sure if people intermarry or not (maybe I will try to find out when I go back), but of course I agree that the media is exagerrating.

As late as two years ago, Darfurians did not identify themselves as “Africans” or “Arabs.” They referred to themselves as Sudanese and secondarily as westerners or Darfurians. Only recently, with the government waging war against the African communities, have the affected Darfurians called themselves “Africans.” While ethnic tensions have certainly increased in Darfur due to the current conflict, this is a result of the government’s political and military policy of manipulating ethnicity and using ethnic militias to fight the rebels—in the south and in the west.
 
Name
Zeinab    - Egypt
Profession Student
Question Many of the Sudanese who were involved in the strike in Cairo were from Darfur. They left Darfur as refugees, did they receive refugee status. Why did they leave, because the war is over? Is it safe for people in Darfur. Do refugees who leave Darfur for another country receive refugee status?
Answer Ok Ms. Zeinab, your question is a lot of work, but let me go through this slowly.

First, we need to explain and define the terms (especially the term "refugee") and then sort out the facts.

WHO IS A "REFUGEE"?

A refugee is a person who, by reason of a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion,

(a) is outside his/her country of nationality and is unable or, by reason of that fear, is unwilling to avail themselves of the protection of each of that country, or

(b)not having a country of nationality, is outside his/her country of former habitual residence and is unable or, by reason of that fear, unwilling to return to that country.

WAS EVERY ONE IN MOUSTAFA MAHMOUD GARDEN, CAIRO, A REFUGEE?

No.

You stated that "Many of the Sudanese who were involved in the strike in Cairo were from Darfur." This is not correct, there are clear statistics to support who was in the garden and what were their backgrounds, and whether they were refugees or not, whether they were all Sudanese or not.

When a person leaves their country of origin for any of the reasons stated above, they are not automatically refugees until they go through a process of "refugee status determination," until they do, they are called "asylum seekers".

As per my understanding of United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) policies in cairo, all asylum seekers from Darfur did undergo a refugee status determination process, and if they were found to fit the critirea they were granted refugee status.

As for your question "Why did they leave, because the war is over?" I do not comprehend that. All I can say is that the war is not over in Darfur.

IS IT SAFE FOR PEOPLE IN DARFUR?

No, it is not.

Please follow up in case I am not clear.

Thank you for your interest.
 
Name
Esther Bavelaar    - Egypt
Profession editor/writer
Question A considerable number of the refugees that were attacked by the Egyptian security forces in Cairo on the 30th of December were from Darfur. The ensuing media coverage exposed the many profound misconceptions Egyptians (as many citizens in host-countries)hold about refugees. What do you think should be done to make the general public more aware of the background of refugees and the difficulties they face in exile?
Answer Dear Ms. Esther,

1- There are no clear statistics about the ethnicities and nationalities of the people who were striking at the Moustafa Mahmoud garden.

2- There are no clear statistics/proof over their status (whether they are refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants etc.)

3- I really appreciate your interest over a very crucial issue, public awareness about refugees, their problems and reasons compelling them to come to Egypt. I belive people need to be more educated about refugees/asylum seekers who flee their country of origin to neighbourig countiries. At the same time, we need not forget Egypt is a "poor" country and has its own share of problem, so here, more focus on tolerance needs to be incorporated.

Also, the policies with regards to refugees need to be sorted out and clarified so people can understand that it is a stable and firm process. If you talk to the average Egyptian about refugees in Egypt, they mainly care about the job market, and Egypt's inflation rates. For many Egyptians, refugees are "sharing their bread and so they (Egyptians) can't afford this."

So again one needs to be very careful before judging misconceptions and public reactions.

Thank you and I hope you will get in touch in case you need more clarification.
 
Name
nouasria    - Morocco
Profession professor
Question What is the mission of the Arab people so that they as help Sudan to resolve it's problem in Darfur.
Answer Dearest Nouasria,

I am so happy you are interested in the conflict of Darfur per se, and what could be done to help.

There is the AU (African Union) peacekeeping forces. But there is no Arab/Muslim presence in Darfur. There is not one Muslim NGO.

The Kuwaiti and Saudi Red Crescent societies have a couple of clinics and they support the major hospital, they are doing a great job but it is not enough.
Most villages in Darfur are battle fields. T

o start with, people can support by reconstructing hospitals and clinics and ensuring supplies and medication.

Another important thing is regarding infrastructure, and I am not talking about roads and bridges here, but rather about power and water supply. Many villages and cities in Darfur can live days and weeks without power and many have no power at all, people mainly depend on generators.

In the biggest hospital in Darfur, an average person may not be able to donate blood because there is no power guaranteed to support the fridge where the blood is going to be stored!

Also Internally Dispoalced People (IDPs) suffer a lot, especially women. for example, post natal care is very hard there, to the extent that women have no access to sanitary pads they need after they give birth.

There is a lot to be done on many levels.
 
Name
Safiyyah    - 
Profession Professor
Question What is the current situation in Darfur for women? Is there a lot of rape and attacks by the Arab militias? How many armed militia soldiers are there, are there attempts to break them up?
Answer Dear Safiyyah,

I have no clear figures to answer your questions. A lot of women especially from Internally Displaced People's (IDP) camps are raped by Arab Militias at more than one incident!

The only way to break them up is to disarm them, this is what the African Union (AU) is tryign to do in Darfur, but then again it is mainly the Sudanese Government that should do so.
 
Name
Muslim    - 
Profession
Question What's the scale of the conflict? I've heard two stories: one, mass destruction, genocide, mass rape, children dying, etc; the other, no where near that bad, clashes, yes, deaths, yes, killing, yes, but hyped out by Western aid organizations and an ingorant media.
Answer Dear Muslim,

Yes, Darfur is a war zone (believe it or not, Muslims killing each other), mass killings, mass rape and all crimes against humanity since early 2003.

In relevant reports dated December 2005, militia attacks on villages have decreased during 2005. The humanitarian situation in camps has improved. The monthly number of deaths due to violence is still very high (100-300 persons per month), but it has decreased compared to the past 2 years.

According to a WHO study, the mortality rate has dropped by half in 2005 compared to 2004. However, the situation is still very critical and insecure. Acts of banditry and unlawful killing still persist. Attacks on villages continue (sometimes they last for days and villages turn into battle fields where markets are burned, houses destroyed, women raped, children killed, and men killed or abducted).

Remeber that the militias have not been disarmed. Arbitrary arrest and inhuman treatment of prisoners is still very common.

As for rape, it continues, vigorously. I wish I could quote the number of rape victims I meet per week.

A new government policy to help the victims of rape and to investigate the crimes of rape has been adopted, but its implementation is still deficient throughout Darfur. The Government has commenced a process of reconciliation between tribes. This is laudable and some results have become manifest. However, it cannot be a substitute, neither for a political agreement
nor for an official legal action.

The Government has finally established a court to deal with crimes against humanity, but so far only a few cases have been brought to court. Here too a call on the government is in place: go forward, speedily, and go higher up; do not only arrest foot soldiers who killed and raped, but also their commanders, and their leaders who instructed them to do so. Only then can impunity be stopped. Only then the present reconciliation efforts will result not merely in clearing a dark past but also in opening a new era in which crimes cannot be repeated.

All in all, there is room for optimism, but we must be realistic. The situation is utterly fragile. The wounds afflicted to millions of people during a lengthy period of neglect, exclusion, injustice and bad governance cannot be healed overnight.

Now let me come to an interesting part of your question about the "Western Aid organizations" and "ignorant media" hyping up the situation in Darfur, well, if this is the case where are the Muslim aid organizations? Where are the good media?!

I have been in Darfur for a considerable time, and believe me I haven't seen one Muslim or one none-Western organization. All organizations in charge of IDP (Internally Displaced People) camps are Western. All rescue, aid and relief services are not one bit muslim!

WHERE ARE WE? Why are we not doing anything about this crisis? Why are we not involved like hundereds of other NGOs (belive me the Sudanese people are going to be extremely happy dealing with Muslims and people they can relate to on many levels). This is the question we need to post before judging others' reports.

Much to your surprise, most of the "Western aid organizations" are working so hard for the people of Darfur (even though they are not one bit Muslim), and they do not exaggerate the facts, believe me, I am Muslim and I am not one bit Western.

I will be happy to get in touch further with you if you have proactive ideas.

All the best.
 
Name
amina    - 
Profession student
Question Assalamualaykum,

So what exactly can we do to help them since most of us are so far away? Some of us are aware of the situation but feel helpless.

So any suggestions about how exactly we can help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Wassalam.
Answer Thank you Amina for your question.

The best way to help people in Darfur is through NGOs and aid groups, either intiate your own with whatever limited budget/mandate you have or join one and set your own program.

You can also coordinate with camp managers and NGOs in different areas so you can come to camps and distribute aid.

Let me know if you need more details.

All the best,

Jazakoum Allah Kheiran
 
Name
Karen    - 
Profession
Question In your cv I read that part of your role in Darfur is to provide psychosocial support to the women. I'm sure that what you have seen and what you wish to tell us really goes beyond these lines. But I still need to know directly from you what is the situation there like exactly in these camps for an ordinary human being, especially the women among them? How does sanitation, if any, work? How do they secure themselves? How does all of this affect them psychologically? Are there child deaths?

I know they're a lot of questions, but I can't wait to hear the answer from someone who actually lives there and can see everything going on.

Thanks :)
Answer Dearest Karen,

I cannt talk in great detail about that, but lets first talk about the IDP camps and the situation of women there. I am not sure if you have ever seen what IDP camps look like, maybe I will try to get some pictures in the future (that's a different project but keep checking this website please).

Basically, people live in tents. They have blankets on the floors - if they are lucky - or plastic sheets. The tents are also plastic.

Sanitation... I have no idea where to start. A toilet is a hole dug in the sand. That's all you get with regards to sanitation. There is no running water (even in the average Darfur houses). Every tent gets around 4-5 buckets of water per day from the camp managemet or they can go fetch their own water (women usually take a donkey and carry the buckets back to the tents).

Sanitation is one of our biggest drawbacks, especially when related to post natal care. there is a project in process now about providing sanitary towels (the cotton ones women can wash and re-use not the disposable ones), but again food is always a priority.

You asked me "how do they secure themselves"? They don't. These are very strong women and they have great belief in Allah inspite of their pain and misery.

Women are usually attacked when they go farming, when they go fetching firewood outside the camps and in the evening inside the camps. Women tell me that they dont think about their security anymore, they are happy to make it through the day and "Allah karim". Their priority is to bring food to the house!

Children/minors are usually the first victims, especially during mass attacks (and beside high infant mortality rates).

How this affects them psychologically, that's a very good question. Some face emotional numbness, some are in denial and some break down, especially young unmarried girls. They are afraid of becoming outcast by their families and communities and they are afraid of honor killings in case they get pregnant after rape. Most victims refrain from reporting the case to the police and going to court, first because usually the perpetrators are unidentified and second because the perpetrators' statements are taken for granted, i.e., the case is dismissed if the perpetrator states that the woman has concented to the act. In this case, the Judge might refer the case back to the prosecutor and the woman is charged with adultry!

In some cases in remote areas where I am the only female available, I do the psycho-social therapty as per a trainig I received. Our first priority, however, is usually to make sure the victim is tested against Sexually Transmitted Diceases (STDs) and HIV Aids, of course. The process is very complicated, especially when the victim recites the details of the incident. I usually end up interviewing 4 other women who happen to be victims in the same incident as well.

One interesting thing is the term some women use when they describe the attack, they never explicitly say "I was raped," they say "they have humiliated me."

This makes my job much tougher, as I have to ask more details to define the exact scenario of the incident and see whether rape (in the clear physical sense) has actually occured. 100% of the cases it has, but the women are just too ashamed to use the term "rape".

Don't worry, I am not on Prozac! But believe me, everytime I go back to a house with walls and a bathroom, I am a very happy woman, and thankful to Allah.

Thank you for your interest.
 
Name
Abullah    - 
Profession
Question I'm hearing talk of an African peacekeeping force being deployed in Darfur... Is that necessary? Would it really help the situation? More importantly, how would the people in the area react to a foreign presence?
Answer Dear Mr. Abullah,

I Just wanted to add one more point. When mothers need to feed their children, they don't care about being raped, and they care less about who gives them the food. The one thing they care about is making sure their children get the food they need. So reaction to a foreign presence is not on the agenda right now.

Let me give you an example to clarify the situation:

I was at a battlefield 24 hours after an attack where around 10 people from one village were killed and five women were raped. The women were outside the village farming some land. When I interviewed one of them, all she cared about was compensation for her 2 donkeys and the wheat that was looted. She said she "[does] not care about the rape now, all I need is to make sure my kids get the food they need."

Thank you and let me know if you have further questions.
 
Name
Adil    - Ethiopia
Profession student
Question we hear so many decry from USA and western countries about the situation in darfur.Is realy the situation at stake in regard to peace,security and humaniterian activity in overall.
Answer Dearest Adil,
Yes, the situation is as grave as protrayed. kindly refer to answers of similar questions in the dialogue.

All the best and thank you for your interest.
 

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