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Session Details
Guest Name Dr Karima K Burns
Profession Naturopathic Doctor, Herbalist – Waldorf School of Thought
Subject Facing Marital Obstacles in Ramadan...
Date Thursday,Sep 3 ,2009
Time Makkah
From
... 04:00...To... 12:00
GMT
From
... 01:00...To...09:00
 
Name
Host    - 
Profession
Question
The session has just started. Please feel free to join us with your questions on family and gender.

After the session has ended, you can view the whole dialogue by clicking on "Recent Sessions", or later by going through "Archives".


Answer
-
 
Name
M    - Pakistan
Profession
Question
As salamu 'alaykum :

I have been married for 28 years, my wife gets upset on small things, and when she does she yells, makes baseless accusations about me, and claims there is nothing wrong with her behaviour. I have explained to her many times that I do not like her behaviour - she does not even apologise. I cannot take it any more so as a result I have stopped talking to her, because that's the only way I can avoid this.

Answer
Dear M,

There are a few possible ways to look at this situation to help you explore more suitable solutions. It sounds like you could be a victim of emotional abuse or it could simply be a different way of responding to situations in life.

For now your solution is suitable assuming that you are "not talking" during the period of anger only. People in general (women or men) need to respect their partner's limits. If a partner says "I cannot handle the yelling right now" or "I do not like it when you call me names" that needs to be respected by the other party, also it needs to be respected that she too has limits. If the other person refuses to respect your limits you need to make the line "firmer" using a gentle form of resistance such as refusal to participate.

Each time a person resists engaging in a fight or angry confrontation with another they need to make it clear why they are leaving or disengaging in the "battle". To be fair you should say each time, 'I need to stop talking right now, and take a time out from this conversation as I do not want to become angry as well" or "I feel I do not deserve this emotional abuse. When you feel you would like to speak to me in a respectful manner we can talk". I am giving general advice here for anyone who is directing emotional abuse at you. Of course you need to decide what to say based on who they are - wife, husband, boss at work, friend, parent, etc...

However, the most important thing is that your own response to them is respectful. To refuse to respond to an angry or unreasonable person is sometimes the best way to prevent more anger from surfacing on both sides. It is also a way of being respectful of your own human rights. However, if you also engage in disrespectful behavior, you are entering the "battle" with your own form of emotional abuse. If you are refusing to speak to her for hours or days on end then this is also a form of emotional abuse. Emotional abuse can be passive as well as aggressive.

Another possibility to consider is that she may simply be seeing life in a completely different way, and is not behaving in any way that seems unusual to her. People have different temperaments and different ways of dealing with life. For example, people of the choleric temperament are often very dramatic in their speech. They may use exaggeration, drama and a raised voice when they speak. To someone who is not of the choleric type this may seem "unreasonable and yelling". However, to them they may simply be raising their voice slightly and being dramatic. Since their normal way of living is dramatic they do not feel they are doing anything wrong. And they are not. A person of the phlegmatic temperament may get angry by becoming firm and quiet. This can be frustrating for those around them who can feel they are being "stubborn and not listening to them". However, this is simply the phlegmatic person's way of dealing with anger and is not "wrong" either.

You do not mention that she is using bad language or attacking you physically. You also don't mention how loudly she is yelling. In my work with people I have noticed that people's definitions of yelling can range all the way from a "slightly raised voice" to "screaming". Some people even consider if a person is directing an intense conversation at them that the person is "yelling" even when the voice does not rise at all. It would help to know what category she is in. Is she really yelling or is she simply using a slightly louder or more intense voice?

Lastly, you mention that she is making "baseless accusations". Could you be more specific?

  • Are these always the same?


  • Does she use bad language or are these accusations completely unrelated to anything?


  • Are some of the accusations accurate or partially accurate?


  • If she is making the same accusations over and over, you may want to sit and talk about each of them when she is feeling calm. If they are random accusations that are always different then this would be another sign of possible emotional abuse.

    If you can honestly conclude that she is being excessive in her yelling there is little you can do about it until she realizes she has a problem. However, any problem that is discussed must also be discussed with a willingness on your side to also admit the problems you might contribute to the conversations. To be fair, most conversational problems have two sides. Sometimes the more aggressive person can seem "more wrong" or even "the only person that is wrong" but negative passive behavior can be destructive too.

    Until things change the best thing to do is accept the way she is with love. If she does have anger management problems then realize compassionately that these are not your issues, and her anger is not completely directed at you. Help her to heal and find better ways to communicate with you. She is trying to communicate, but does not know how to reach you. Help her know how to reach you in the best ways.


    In sha'Allah this is helpful.


     
    Name
    Ennie    - Egypt
    Profession
    Question
    My friends husband got married to another girl, and since then their lives have been upside down. I know what she is going through, because my husband too got married to another horrible girl. The latest problem that they are encountering, is that he will not return to her home, until she tells him what she wants. She has told him many times that she wants a divorce, because he is treating them so unequal, and the other one is controlling him so much. Her children are suffering a great deal, because he has changed so much.

    Now the current situation is that he will not return home until she tells him what she wants. He expects her to call him, and will not contact her at all, many have told her, what he is doing is wrong, and she should not contact him, stay quiet, and just continue to take care of her children, and wait for him to come to his senses and realize that he is acting like a child, and if he was a true Muslim man, he would not do this, and come to her and speak with her, either alone or with a sheikh so they can resolve their problems. Her children are suffering a great deal, because it has almost been 1 month since he has left the house. The children are crying, and now are saying that they hate their father because he has hurt their mother and them so much, just because he wanted to go and get married to a very rude lady that has nothing to offer. I want to understand what can she do to help her children get through this with not being affected, she has tried to shelter her children from the whole situation, but he keeps on telling them, that they have to accept he is married, and keeps on bringing the other girl to their lives. The children hate his other wife, and do not want to see her. The children are young, 10 and 7. They have become very unhappy, and the mother is so confused on how to treat them.

    I also have another question....why do men feel they have to go and get another wife, when they know it will affect their first marriage, and will cause so much trouble? What are our men becoming?

    I feel that men these days are so selfish, and they do not think things through clearly. They take advantage of us, and put their children's mental state into a scare. They say that our dear Prophet (pbuh) did this, so they are allowed to also. But what I find is that men are taking total advantage of this, and using the means of obtaining another wife for their own benefit. They are not equal, and do not understand true Islam . Is there any du'aa that I can do and tell my friend, so we can make our husbands see the light, and see the true meaning of Islam.

    Jazakum Allahu Khayru

    Answer
    Dear Ennie,

    I apologize for the delayed response. I typed a long answer to you for about 25 minutes and then my computer shut down suddenly to make "updates". I lost everything I had typed to you but I don't want others to miss out on their opportunity to ask questions so I will try to summarize what I was saying before:

    In summary I was saying that, in a crisis situation the children look to the adults for guidance and examples on how they should act. If the adults are panicking or crying then they will to. Not only are they dealing with emotions, but they are also learning how to deal with what life brings them. So they are expressing their own emotions, but also expressing them in ways that they "see" are "right".

    The mother can help her children most by keeping the unfortunate situation in the background and focusing on enjoying the children, planning nice meals and events with them, and leading daily life "as normal". When she needs to cry she should do so in private and when she discusses the situation with her husband, friends or family, she should make sure the children cannot overhear the discussion. This must all be done with the greatest sincere effort. Many parents think they are sheltering the children but they do so just by "closing a door". Children can hear through closed doors. Other parents say they are "crying away from the children" but if they suddenly run out of the room and tearfully say "I will be right back" the children know what is going on.

    Remember that the children are dealing with their own emotions. If they seem their mother suffering they will want to protect her but they will feel helpless because they can do nothing about the situation. This can increase their suffering.

    The last question is one that many people are asking today. I feel that the more we discuss this situation here at Islamonline and in other forums, that more and more men will make more responsible choices.

    There are situations in which a marriage to a second wife works out well. I have met many people in such situations. However, it has become more and more common in today's society for irresponsible marriages to take place.

    I feel a lot of these irresponsible marriages would be eliminated if the men and women participating in them had as much respect for the second marriage as they did for the first marriage.

    Would you have married your husband without at least telling your mother and father and asking their opinion? Would you have married your husband without your family ever meeting him?

    So why are men marrying second wives without consulting their family (their first wife and children)? Logically, it does not make sense. The second marriages that seem to work the best are the ones in which the entire family is involved in the process.

    I apologize, once again, for this being a short answer. It was about four times as long before my computer shut off. However, I think I was able to convey most of what I had wanted to share in the first message.

     
    Name
    Aisha    - United Kingdom
    Profession
    Question I got married 6 months ago. I never used to pray, i used to smoke, I used to wear tight clothing, and I have changed a lot. I pray my five prayers, read the Qur'an, wear a jilbaab and hijab. al hamdu Lillah. I wash and clean-up, and I do my household duties. I really try when me and my husband argue to just keep quiet and listen. He has a lot of temper, and he always talks to me with an attitude, and if I do something wrong he never explains things to me he always shouts. I've just been ignoring it lately, but it's emotionally stressing me out. I cry myself to sleep, and I cry when I think about it because I regret getting married. I don't want to ever leave him because I have given him my heart, and I can't take that away, but my husband is pushing me away from him, and I think i am falling-out of love.

    Recently I have been chatting to another man. I like him because he makes me laugh and smile, and I have not felt like that for a long time. The man I am chatting to is not married, but i am! I have stopped chatting to him as it is wrong, and I feel guilty. I just don't know what to do. I've tried talking to my husband about his temper, and the way he is, but he still has not changed. he prays his 5 prayers,is practicing Islam, and has a beard. but I don't want to be a divorced women at 19. Can you please help me because I really need someone to guide me, and I hope you can really help me because I don't want to commit sin.

    Answer You have already taken the first step in realizing you need help and I hope you can find many supportive friends or other people to help you work through this situation. Insha-Allah any advice I can share will also be helpful.

    You have already realized that seeking a relationship outside of your marriage is wrong and you have stopped this. However, you must also realize that it is not healthy for you. This challenge you have been given needs to be faced. If you do not face it now, then it will come into your life again and again. It is further, not advisable to have any new relationships within 6 months of the first one. So, even if you did get divorced, you want to wait at least 6 months to a year before seeking another engagegment.

    Secondly, you say "I don't want to be a divorced woman at 19". I am certainly not advising you to get a divorce, but I do want to point out that this statement can prevent you from being able to truly look at your situation and solve your problems in a healthy way. When we say "I will never" or "I will not" do something we are not submitting to the will of Allah, and letting life take its course. If this does turn out to be a very poor marriage for you, and you eventually decide to divorce - wouldn't you rather be a 19-year-old divorced woman than a 19-year-old divorced woman with a child? My point is that it is better to end the marriage sooner than later if you see divorce as your only option. It is also a good thing to keep all your options open when trying to solve the problem.

    Third, you may find some help in the answer to the first question I answered on the forum tonight about emotional abuse.

    You mention that you just "keep quiet and listen" but sometimes this is not the best solution. When a person is angry it is usually best to be quiet and let them finish with their anger before you speak to them. Angry people do not have the ability (at that time) to engage in a real discussion. However, every person in a relationship also has rights. If his anger is excessive and is hurting you you can choose to leave the room, or excuse yourself, and indicate that you would be happy to "talk about it later" when things have calmed down. If he sees that you are accepting his anger by being silent he will not realize it is hurting you or he will, ironically, lose respect for you for "taking it" from him. There is no reason to shout or yell back or be mean. You can simply say that you would love to talk, but you would prefer to talk later when he is not yelling.

    Write down the things he yells about, and try to converse with him about them when he is not angry. Ask him in a calm way about some of the things you are confused about. You say "he never explains things to me".

    People are usually unwilling to explain anything when they are angry. However, if you ask a person "Can you help me understand...?" or "Can you help me with...?" when they are having a calm moment, most people are flattered to be asked for help and are happy to share.

    Another factor is that you are still at the beginning of your marriage. There is a stereotype that the first year of marriage is "blissful" and THEN the challenges start "after the honeymoon". However, this is not true for everyone. In some cases, it is the first year that is the most difficult, and then it gets easier. You are still getting to know each other at this point. It sounds like both of you are expecting each other to act in a certain way already.

    It will help the relationship if you can both look at each other and say "we are just getting to know each other and what it is like to live with each other. I do not really know you yet so I ask that you please help me to get to know you and that you please ask questions of me so you can get to know me better too."

    Another good rule, especially when in the beginning of the marriage, is to "always assume the best".

    Insha-Allah this is helpful.

     
    Name
    Z    - South Africa
    Profession
    Question
    Are my feelings about my husband misplaced? I don't really know where to begin. I have been married almost 10 years to an Arab from North Africa. We have 3 children and we reside in my home country. I stopped working a couple of years ago to take care of the kids. The problem, my husband is very well known in our community, a good Muslim, a born leader, people look up to him and respect him. I have never heard anyone say anything bad about him.

    But, at home it is something different, he is nice to me yes, does not physically abuse me, but I feel I can do nothing right, there is constant criticism directed at me, the home, the way I do things. Also, I have to constantly ask him to provide for us, money for school fees, for general living expenses, for food, and I dread doing this because I know he will throw a tantrum about how I am wasting his money. I feel guilty about asking what is my right, and I hate feeling this way. I have just reached the stage where I am so tired of everything. I have contemplated going to an Imam to speak to him but I know he will not take kindly to something like this. I am even asking myself why did I marry him, because I am not happy? If I try to talk to him he tells me I am disrespectful and insults me terribly. I sit on my musallah (prayer mat) and ask Allah, if I am wrong to please forgive me and to give us both hidaya (blessings as a gift) insha-Allah.

    There is much more, but please tell me, how do I handle such a situation - no-one will believe me because he is "such a nice person" outside our home. He always worries about what people thinks, so if someone asks him to lend them money, he will, and I feel this is not right, when I have to ask him everytime, sometimes 3 times just to pay one account. When he does buy food (if we go to the supermarket), he will complain all the time while pushing the trolley, but he expects that when he invites guests there must be food prepared.

    Please be give me some guidance. I am really feeling desperate.I am beginning to despise my husband, and I am afraid that shaytan could be planting seeds in my mind. Am I being rational in my expectations? How can a wife always be so bad. I am a good wife, I see to his home, even his business, his clothes, help him with his lectures, etc. see to our children, our home, I neglect myself but he never neglects himself.

    Shukran and as salamu alaikum

    Answer
    I am sorry for the situation you are in. It is very difficult to be in such a situation however it is not uncommon. It makes the situation even more difficult for the woman because it creates a situation where, not only is she abused, but she has no support and nobody to turn to for help.

    You mention "he does not physically abuse me". However, he does, as I see from your letter, emotionally abuse you. In the realm of Western and modern medicine one can only say "I am physically abused" when there is a mark left on the external body. However, in the realm of Islamic and Eastern medicine the view of health is much more holistic. Injury is seen as coming from the emotional and spiritual world just as strongly as it comes from the physical world. The famous physician, Avicenna, often healed patients with emotional solutions alone. In the definition of Eastern and Islamic medicine you are being physically abused, because what is happening to you is causing physical, emotional and spiritual damage in your body. These are all interlinked and cannot be separated (although Western medicine tries hard to do so).

    It sounds like the main issue in his abusive behavior is a desire for control. While this desire seems to work well for him in the outside world, it is not working well in his personal life.

    In a situation where a man has a great need for control in his public and private life, there is usually very little you can do to change his actions and desires. He will continue to be a controlling person and some of that control will be positive (controlling who he gives money to and this may result in some poor people getting donations) or it may be negative (keeping money from his family).

    To remain married to him you will need to realize that he is a controlling person and that you cannot change him, but you can deal with it differently.

    The first thing to start with is your statement "I neglect myself, but he never neglects himself." One of the interesting things about human relationships is that people usually respect us to the extent that we respect ourselves. This is why people often treat each other based on how carefully another person is dressed.

    If you start treating yourself with more respect he will slowly start to do the same. You will need to start saying "no" more often so you can take care of yourself. Did you skip your morning shower so he could have an early breakfast for an important meeting? Did you miss two hours of sleep because you were editing his paper? Sit down with yourself and think about what your own personal and physical limits are. You can only neglect yourself for so long. Eventually this neglect will show in your health. Write down what you need to do to take good care of yourself. Remind yourself, your husband and your children that you can only take care of them if you take care of yourself first.

    Start setting more limits. Say "I cannot correct this paper now because I need to sleep" or "I put some breakfast in the fridge for you last night. All you need to do is reheat it - I knew I would not have time to make it so early in the morning." It is really important that you take care of yourself well. You may even have to leave some bills unpaid and just leave the "disconnect notices" on his desk. You are taking on a lot of responsibility that is not yours. Try to shift some of this back to where it belongs.

    It may seem selfish, and he may even try to accuse you of this (that is part of the way a person controls you - by making accusations). However, do not believe this for one moment - taking care of yourself is the greatest gift you can give him or your children.

    Most importantly keep reminding yourself of what you said above "I am a good wife". You are.

    It is not "normal" for a person to constantly criticize a person. This indicates a problem from their end, not yours. A normal relationship, even with problems, includes positive as well as negative statements. No, a person cannot be "all bad". If a person is being presented as "all bad" then this is a good indication that the issues being presented are not theirs, but issues belonging to the person doing the criticism.

     
    Name
    Krystal    - 
    Profession
    Question
    Yes, I am a married muslim, and I have 4 children. I am from America, and my husband is from Egypt. Our life style is very different. I wasn't a Muslim when we first married. I love him so much, but i can't stand how much he listens to his mother - there is not one thing she says or does that he does not disapprove of. She is always right, and I am always the wrong one. He will fight me over her if I say her name, or say something about her. It is very hard to live with.

    I am still learning about my Islam, and by Allah, and I am trying to understand my husband, but we fight so badly over her, that I cannot stand her now.

    I changed my number so she does not call my phone she calls his cell-phone. I feel that she will be the cause of our marriage not working because he is always on her side, and I can't live like this please tell what to do...


    Answer
    The first thing you can do is to realize that this is a normal state of affairs in Egypt. Men have a great respect for their mothers (usually), and are taught to respect them, to put them first in everything, and to take care of them as they get older. They take very seriously, the statement, "Heaven is at the feet of the mother."

    Having a son who is so dedicated is a blessing to the mother, but is often a horrible situation to the wife.

    There is not much you will be able to do about the situation, however.

    In America many relationships are structured so the wife has the priority. Nuclear relationships are what rule the American society, movies, marketing and everything. If you were in such a relationship you might imagine "talking about it" with your husband or working out a solution that works for everyone.

    However, in Egypt, families are structured around extended families, the mother being part of this structure. I even know of some situations where it is not only the mother giving the wife "trouble" , but the sisters as well.

    In any case, you are not married only to your husband as you would be in America, you are married to his family. This makes the relationship a lot more complicated. You need to keep in mind that he needs time for the "rest of his family" and this extends outside of your home. It may seem like he is not spending enough time with you or he is listening to his mother too much, however, from his point of view he probably feels he is being very fair by distributing his time among all the family members that are part of his extended family.

    Since you cannot change the situation I hope that understanding it can help you to feel less vulnerable.

    There are also some ways to avoid conflict. Realize that your husband has grown up in a society that respects mothers, has a strong attachment to the extended family, has a strong respect for hierarchical situations (such as elders getting respect, or elder children having priority over the younger ones). With all of these factors in place his mother will remain firmly in place as the figure that takes priority in the household - she is a mother, is an elder and is part of the family.

    To discuss this with him may seen simple, but it is not. When you mention anything negative about his mother you are not only questioning her, but the entire way his society is structured so your statements will always cut deeper than you intended, and his reaction will always be very defensive because he is defending much more than his mother.

    The best plan of action is to stay out of any discussion or mention of his mother. If he mentions her you should always say something flattering and respectful. The more respect you have for her, the more respect he will have for you.

    You can also try to find something you have in common with the mother and try to make friends with her. If that does not work you can continue to try to avoid her as you are now. Sometimes that is the best method.

    Ultimately keep in mind that when your sons grow up you may have the honor of being treated so well by them instead of being put into a "retirement home" as many sons in America now do. Point out to your sons and daughters how wonderful it is that your husband respects his mother. This impression will not be lost on them, and even starting now, you will receive more respect from your own children (even now when they are little) because they will want to model their behavior after that of their father.

     
    Name
    H    - India
    Profession
    Question
    I am in a lot of pain? I have been married for almost two and a half years now, but the first year and a half of marriage, I was not living with my husband, because I was working in a different area. We were meeting Friday night to Monday morning. We have been living together for nearly a year now, and recently I have found some awful awful things on him. He has had experiences with women while we were married, and been hiding it of course from me. These encounters were not only when we were living separated, but even now they happen. I have found this out because one day I discovered a receipt in his pocket, of a certain amount of money at a certain time when he was supposed to be at work, and when I asked him about that, he denied saying he had not left work that day. I started doing some research on his phone calls and other emails, and I have found out very very bad things that he has done, involving naked women. He has always told me to trust him, and not look into his emails or whatever, and I have always trusted him, but this is the reward I get for trusting him: him enjoying himself with other women?

    Now, if I confront him, he will deny everything, but most of all he will say ?I told you never to look into my things? and of course, he will say this is just talk, I have never done anything, and this will worsen our relationship?. But I can assure you that it is not just dirty talk with women, he has indeed been with them (to what extent, Allah only knows, but for sure he has had a lot of interaction with naked women.)

    What shall I do? I am trapped because I can't tell him that I have found these things, otherwise am pretty sure my marriage will be over, because there wont be any trust between us (not that I trust him now). I love him, and if he has a 'vice' I want to help him out, but he will of course never admit this to me?.Several times, I have tried to approach the subject of adultery in a general sense, and of course he always tells me that he is not attracted by anyone else other than me?.

    I pray to Allah that Allah removes him from this dirty path, but my prayer has not been answered yet. Please help me. What is even more infuriating is that he still prays, and does everything in an 'Islamic' way. People from outside consider him to be a 'good' Muslim. Please help and advise me, and pray for me as well?.

    Answer
    What your husband is doing is wrong, and dishonors him as well as you. You do not need him to admit anything, because you already have the proof you need in the e-mails and things he has left around the house. Knowing this, do you want to remain in this marriage? If he is denying that anything happened then it does not seem he is willing to try to change his destructive behavior. You need to think seriously about what you are willing to accept in the marriage.

    Are you willing to accept that he did/does these things if he agrees to stop and seek help?

    I would not advise tolerating the behavior "as is" as it puts you at risk for sexually transmitted diseases, among other things.

    If he does not agree to seek help what do you want to do?

    You need to answer these questions for yourself, be firm in your answers and then share them with him and let him make his own decisions about which options he will chose in the relationship (from the options you are presenting him).

    Insha-Allah this is helpful.

     

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