The session has started. Join us with your questions.
Answer
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Name
mohd.abdullah
- Saudi Arabia
Profession
salesman
Question
What was your experience in the hands of the so-called kidnappers in Iraq?
Answer
I think my experience was very different from what you'd expect when you think of kidnapping. We had been in Fallujah during the siege in April 2004, trying to
get medical supplies into the city, to move them around to where they were needed and to get casualties to the hospitals and to Baghdad, and help evacuate families who wanted to leave their houses. I think the context made a difference.
We were trying to leave Fallujah when we were caught in a crossfire between US and local fighters and were then taken in by the local fighters. From their point of
view, it must have been suspicious to see foreigners leaving town in a car and they obviously had to find out who we were.
Having said that, when the first man found out that two of our group were English and Australian respectively, he thought he had the most valuable hostages imaginable. Fortunately though, they took us to someone who appeared to have some sort of authority; he was very calm and dignified, questioned us and then left, apparently to verify our story, and we were then driven back to Baghdad the next day by one of the local imams.
We were fed and given water and tea—and at all times treated gently, which seemed extraordinarily generous given that they couldn’t have had much food left by
then. When Jenny was feeling ill, two masked gunmen gave her a pillow and a blanket and tucked the pillow under her head.
Of course that is different from the stories you hear of other people’s experiences; for example the Canadian journalist Scott Taylor who was taken in Tal Afar, in the north, and was beated and repeatedly threatened with execution, and from the Japanese group who were kidnapped just before us and shown on TV with knives to their throats, but thankfully that’s how it was for us.
Name
Abi Raihan
- Indonesia
Profession
Engineer
Question
Salam,
The kidnappers, do they look organized? Do they have some kind of spiritual leader to follow? You had some conversation with them?
Answer
Again, I think my experience was different from others’. It was very apparent that these people were not in the habit of taking hostages and had no practice or plan. It was a spur-of-the-moment security thing more than anything else. They took us to someone with authority—I am not sure if he was a sheikh or someone respected locally, and he made the decisions.
I think it’s clear though that there are many, many different groups operating in Iraq, in terms of the explosions and the kidnappings and everything else. Some are more organized than others; so while some kidnappings are opportunistic, others are planned.
For example, when the two Italian aid workers, Simona Pari and Simona Toretta, and two Iraqi colleagues Dr. Raid Al-Ali and Mahnaz Bassam were kidnapped, it was
clearly very organized and carefully planned, with gunmen getting onto the roof of their office/home building and getting past the guards, seizing them and leaving.
There was a lot of speculation at the time that the gunmen were loyal to the then-interim prime minister, Allawi, including reports that the gunmen told people at the aid workers’ house that they were from Allawi’s men. I’m not keen on conspiracies, but what we know of Allawi is that he was a CIA “asset,” responsible for orchestrating bombings designed to destabilize Saddam’s regime. John Negroponte, the US “ambassador” who replaced Bremer, was responsible for covert operations throughout his time in Central America, for a great deal of kidnapping and murder. That is his stock-in-trade. It would be true to form for both men to be employing covert operations to frighten aid workers and journalists out of the country in order to tighten their hold on information.
But equally, there is good money in kidnapping wealthy locals and foreigners generally, and it must be accepted that there are groups who are kidnapping solely for money, while others likely do see it as a legitimate act of resistance. I think it’s simply not possible to answer your question in a specific way because of the many different groups operating.
Name
Muxiiyadeen
- United States
Profession
Question
Thanks in advance for being with us. My question is, what impact did your detention experience leave on you?
Answer
For me, the detention was very short. It’s not something I’d want to repeat but it was not so traumatic. There were times though when we thought, each of us individually, that they were going to kill us, because there were a lot of people with guns, because we were from the countries which had invaded them, and because I think it’s inevitable to wonder, in that situation, and the lasting effect of it has been an enormous joy to be alive.
I saw so, so many people killed in Iraq, during the invasion and during the occupation, and before that, by the sanctions; and I am disgusted at the capacity of our leaders in the UK, US and many, many other countries to destroy their own people and people in other countries. Our leaders will always operate that way as long as we keep letting them have the power. What we desperately need to do is to take back the power, the control, the economy, and so on, and prevent anyone again having the ability to start something like this.
Name
Maria
- Malaysia
Profession
Banker
Question
Hi Jo,
Peace. You must have a cocktail of experinecing being the person you are and the places you have been to. (1) What would have been the most moving / emotionally-wrenching experience from your expedition in Iraq—be it during you the time you were held hostage or otherwise? (2) Was fear your greatest emotion when you were taken hostage?
Answer
Oh, my, what a question. There was so much, in three visits, one in 2001 before the invasion, one immediately before and during the bombing, and one during the occupation. I saw so much suffering that was deliberately inflicted, whether by sanctions or bombs, or imprisonment without trial of family members, or poverty, or torture, both by Saddam’s regime and the one that followed.
The first thing that really hurt was in 2001 seeing children dying of thalassaemia, a blood disorder that is treatable, to a large extent, with bone marrow transplants, which the doctors knew how to do but couldn’t since the sanctions, because their machines were all broken and nothing was sterile, and they couldn’t replace things because of the sanctions, not because the Ministry of Health was refusing to order
them.
Not long before the episode with the mujahedeen, I had also been shot at by US marines while trying to escort an ambulance through Fallujah. We as foreigners were able to travel by ambulance, whereas the Iraqis were just shot, but it had started to get dark and we were trying to reach a woman who was giving birth prematurely with no electricity or medical attention. The marines shot at the ambulance—missing us all, luckily—and we couldn’t get through, nor use the damaged ambulance any more. That for me was worse, because she was left on her own giving birth in the dark.
(2) Was fear your greatest emotion when you were taken hostage?
Oscillated between fear, boredom and rage when people told us what had been done to them and their town, how many family members had been killed by the US marines, etc.
Name
gulgee
- Pakistan
Profession
teaching
Question
Are Iraqis justified in suicide bombings?
Answer
Under normal circumstances, no one is justified in killing anyone. But where people are facing overwhelming military force, and the ones who control that force are prepared to use it to kill and maim not only anyone who resists it but just anyone, including children, there has to be a recognition of the right to fight that force.
So I think it is justifiable where non-violent means are infeasible to target the other side’s force with your own. But that is very important—the use of force, to be justifiable, has to be targeted.
If force or violence is indiscriminate, killing civilians as well as enemy soldiers, then it is unjustifiable. If it is aimed at civilians specifically, it is unjustifiable. So, for example, the Irish, when fighting British occupation of Ireland, might be justified in attacking British soldiers and pro-occupation British politicians—because the soldiers after all are only the cannon fodder—but not in attacking British civilians.
My view it that Iraqis are justified in using force against US/coalition soldiers and, of course, the mercenaries and mercenary companies doing a military job but are officially considered civilians in Iraq, as well as US/multinational corporations, which are benefiting from the occupation—Halliburton, Bechtel, Aegis, etc.—and any military facilities or politico-military facilities linked to the occupation, but emphatically not in attacking civilians of any nationality. I find it especially tragic when a car bomb, for example, kills several Iraqis, whose families are already suffering enough.
To be legitimate, violent resistance has to be targeted, by whatever means it is carried out, suicide or other bombing.
Name
Hassan
- Morocco
Profession
Question
Hello,
First I would like to thank for this interview. I would like to know if you were treated well by kidnappers and that what can you say to relatives of those who were kidnapped and executed? Thank you.
Answer
I think the thing about how we were treated is encompassed in the first answer.
As to what I could say to the relatives of people who have been kidnapped and executed, that’s very hard. I thought, of course, of my family and how they would
cope if they knew I was missing, or dead. For myself, I was still glad I’d gone there, because I thought what I’d done in Iraq and what we’d done in Fallujah made it worth the risk. I don't know whether I’d have felt differently by the time the knife was at my neck or the gun at my head.
I think for people who were there because they loved the country, like Margaret Hassan, and the people who wanted to help, it’s a tragedy that things have ever come to this state. I can’t of course speak for Mrs. Hassan, but I doubt she regretted what she tried to do in Iraq or the fact of being there.
But to me, it seems very, very different to have gone there for a job. There is a lot of money to be made from going to Iraq as a contractor or to work for a contractor, e.g. as a driver or programmer. But I can't imagine ever loving a job enough for it to be worth the risk.
So what would I say to their families? I don't know. To tell you the truth I don't know. I never knew what to say to the mothers whose children were dying from the sanctions or who had lost family members in the bombings either, or to Iraqi friends who had someone they loved kidnapped. “Sorry” doesn't mean anything. I don't know.
Name
Ibrahim
- United Kingdom
Profession
Student
Question
Hello, I was wondering since your return how has Iraq has changed your life.
Answer
I think the reply is the same as to Muxiiyadeen, a few questions ago—joy to be alive and rage at what politicians have done to us and our world, and with that, a determination never to stop fighting by whatever means I can. It means much more than going on protests and challenging the politicians and corporations responsible, although that remains necessary. We need to take control of the whole economy, through co-operative ownership and working. I'll put a web address at the end of the dialogue for something I wrote recently about that.
Name
Hassan Chelh
- Canada
Profession
Question
Hello Jo,
First, thanks for joining this live dialogue. Can you tell us how was your experience when you were kidnapped and what is your message to relatives of those executed by in Iraq?
Thank you.
Answer
I think this is much the same as Hassan from Morocco's question above.
Name
S.A.
- United States
Profession
Student
Question
What was your initial reaction upon being kidnapped? How did the mujaheedin treat you? Did you ever think twice about being in Iraq as a foreign activist with all the chaos happening, turmoil, kidnaps, and murder?
Answer
What was your initial reaction upon being kidnapped?
Denial. I was convinced that wasn’t what was happening. Later, looking for a way to escape.
How did the mujahedeen treat you?
See above.
Did you ever think twice about being in Iraq as a foreign activist with all the chaos happening, turmoil, kidnaps, and murder?
I think at that stage, the kidnapping was very new, for foreigners, though it had been happening to Iraqis throughout the occupation. At that point it wasn't something that seemed a current risk. There was always the chance of being caught up by a roadside bomb or something like that, and of course being caught in the US soldiers’ random firing that so often followed those things.
I always felt, as a foreign activist, that I was in a privileged position because we were less likely than the Iraqis to be shot by the US forces and a bit less
likely to be shot by Iraqis even, so we were able to help in some ways, getting information out to the world or working on our projects with the Iraqis. In
Fallujah, especially, it was obvious that the local people weren't being allowed to move medical supplies and ambulances in the US held areas and if we didn’t, no one could. It's often the same in Palestine, with foreign activists being able to do essential things that locals are prevented from doing—like escorting ambulances.
That was a different time though and I wouldn't go back there now (even if I wasn't five months pregnant) because the risks—not only to me but to any Iraqis working with me—would outweigh anything useful I might be able to do.
Name
Mohammed
- United States
Profession
Question
How much chance the successfullness of USA's intention?
Answer
It depends on what you mean by success...
In the sense that the US now has control of the Iraqi economy and resources, it's been something of a success, although they will obviously need a bit more stability to establish the full "free market" utopia.
In the sense that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has now established a friendly regime in Baghdad, it's been a great success. Iraq is the most heavily indebted country in the world in terms of its debt to export ratio, as a result of loans to Saddam to buy weapons and military hardware, among other things. The debt
increases all the time with compound interest. The Paris Club of major industrial nations and the IMF between them have cooked up a deal for “debt relief” that largely depends on Iraq’s adoption of certain reforms.
These include the roll-back of the food ration (because free food, however inadequate, offends against the principle of the free market) and the privatization of oil and other resources, plus privatization of public services, including foreign
ownership of public services, which means Iraqis will have to pay for things that used to be provided by the government, e.g. water. (See www.jubileeiraq.org for more information on debt and the IMF in Iraq)
The same pattern has been seen all over the world, including the former Yugoslavia (as the major impetus for the Federation's break up), Bolivia, and Argentina.
Control of economies and securing profits is the aim behind most, if not all, imperial projects. So, for example, the US has declared that Iraqi farmers are not allowed to save seeds but must buy them from the US multinational Monsanto. Monsanto manufactures genetically modified seeds, developed for use with vast quantities of pesticides made by Monsanto. Genetic modification and the enforced use of Monsanto seeds has been fought all over the world but the US and the corporations which make that stuff have been sneaking it into food sources to try and make people's objections obsolete. Iraq is their latest battleground.
So from that point of view, I think there is every chance of “success”—economic conquest is more or less complete.
If you mean what are the chances that invading a country and occupying it militarily can bring peace and democracy to that country, even had that been the aim of the invasion, I doubt it could work. Despite the desperation many people had to move on from Saddam’s rule and to make changes, I know of no example or precedent for hostile military force establishing peace.
Name
Arlan
- Canada
Profession
Question
What is your message to relatives of the ones who were executed in Iraq?
Thank you.
Answer
I'm assuming you mean the foreigners who were kidnapped and executed, in which case, see above.
Or do you mean families of people executed before the invasion, by Saddam’s government? I met a lot of people who had lost family members to Saddam’s regime
and people who had been jailed and tortured. There was never a unanimous view, of course—some were just glad to be rid of Saddam; others were angry that the US had first helped Saddam and then effectively prevented national opposition from fighting him, by imposing sanctions which left people too weak to fight, then simply invading and appointing someone else in his place.
To those people, I would have said “keep fighting,” except it would seem patronizing to tell Iraqi people to carry on a fight which has lasted long before I knew of its existence.
Or do you mean relatives of Iraqi people executed since the occupation began, either by US troops killing people or by resistance fighters targeting people they identify as collaborators?
Name
Mohammed
- Saudi Arabia
Profession
Marketing Executive
Question
Dear Mme,
Please tell us how the kidnappers treated you, and what is the aim of the kidnappers according to your experience.
Thanks.
Answer
See above.
Name
Amal
- Egypt
Profession
Question
Peace upon you.
I am just wondering why would you guys risk your lives and be part of such, I would call, a dangerous plot? and why didn't you guys try to foucs your efforts locally to change the political views of your governments? I am sure there are lots of people in you respective countries that are against the war in Iraq?
Thanks.
Answer
You're right, Amal; there are many, many people in the UK who were against the war in Iraq, more opposed to the war in Afghanistan and many more than opposed the war on the former Yugoslavia.
For me, and I can only speak for myself. The reason for going to Iraq, each time, was because I didn't feel that the truth was being told. Our media only reports the “news headlines,” mostly about political and military figures, with little information about ordinary people and how those decisions affect them. You would hear on the news about which was the best-selling household vacuum cleaner, but never that
McDonalds’ workers had staged a massive walkout over appalling pay and conditions. You would hear what Bush or Blair had said about Iraq but not about all the people who had died that day directly because of the sanctions.
That was my reason for going, each time; and then the last time I had other projects as well, all of them essentially solidarity projects, helping Iraqis get in touch with the rest of the world and use those links to rebuild their libraries, universities, etc.
I think it wasn't as dangerous when I was there as it is now, although certainly there was a lot of danger to weigh up against the usefulness of what you could do there, and when that balance seemed to tip too far, I left.
You are, of course, right, in that the belly of the beast is not in Iraq but here in the UK, and in the US, but I saw truthful and accurate information from Iraq and the Iraqi people directly as a vital tool for resistance at home. Also the links that are needed with Iraqi people are difficult to make without any initial contact—for example, the Southern Oil Company Union operates throughout the center and south of Iraq, with some 23,000 members. The most widely recognized Union is the government-approved Iraqi Federation of Trade Unions (IFTU), which is not independent and does not represent the workers. Hassan Jumaa, the Union leader, recently came to the UK to speak about the SOCU; those links are vital but it is also important that people have been from the UK to Iraq so they can pass on to people here an understanding of the struggles there.
For more about Hassan Jumaa's visit and the SOCU, see www.iraqoccupationfocus.org
