I have personally proved a family of 7 can survive, in the US, (just barely) on $50 a month, if pushed to do so. (that averages out to about $12.50 a week, which averages out to about $1.78 a week, per person) But then, there were certain variables involved, such as an ability to visit local food banks, make use of gov't issued commodoties, and the ability to grow some food on the family plot of land, as well...  (I was also assured the 'man of the house' would be able to hunt for food, if needed - that turned out to be a load of hooey, however - the one and only time he went out into the woods to 'hunt', he came back an hour or two later, looking like he'd seen a ghost, and never tried again...kept complaining he thought there were bears out there, in them there woods! I'm sure there were, but that's hardly an excuse!)

I think there are some variables that are not mentioned in this report - such as some of the factors mentioned above. Factors such as - how much does food typically cost in that region? How much ability does the family have to grow, hunt, or forage for their own food, are there any supplements available from local community resources, etc...

When looking at those factors, even though many people in countries considered to be more 'affluent',  may have more money for food, they might still be the less nourished ones, due to a lessened ability to grow, hunt or obtain food in other ways...besides bopping down to the local grocery store, where they will also probably be faced with over-inflated prices, and food-stuff of a lesser quality. (due to being overly processed, stored for long periods of time, etc)

The poor person who only has $1.50 a week to spend on food, might actually turn out to be the one with the healthier lifestyle & diet!

That was what I was beginning to wonder Sahara... But at thje same time does eating less mean eating better? Or do we just overeat?

Just imagine how much money we could save, how much less waste we would create and how much more we have for other things in our lives including chairty.

But for 1 week, in your family what could you survive on for $20 and what would your grocery list look like?

I can't say how others do it, I can only tell you how I survive...

I do think it often boils down to priorities, and what people choose to spend their money on. Often, people are irresponsible with their spending, and that can be a major reason they don't have enough food in the house.

Actually, with me receiving only $39 a month in food stamps currently, and then supplementing that amount with $50 or less, from my disability cash grant, (bills and other expenses generally eat up the rest) I'm surviving on something close to $20 a week, right now...

Due to digestive problems and also religious reasons, I fast pretty regularly, so it is not unusual for me to live on 1 meal a day (evening meal after fasting, I don't usually like to eat anything in the mornings), and I may simply eat some yogurt and dates, instead of a full-fledged 'meal', and I actually get by fine on this diet, and perhaps even feel a bit healthier, when I do things this way. However, due to boredom, or a need for change, I often supplement this basic diet with some lite snacks during the day...(I have noticed that regular fasting cuts down quite a lot on the overall monthly food bill. I highly recommend it to everyone, for economic as well as health reasons..)

The majority of my fresh fruits and vegetables come from the local food bank, which I am free to visit anytime, for the semi-spoiled fruits and veggies they put out, on a daily basis. (I generally visit about once a week.). By 'semi-spoiled', I mean, this is mainly produce that local retailers are getting rid of, because of being too old, having a bad spot or two, etc...Or it is donated by home gardeners, who have some surplus.

Back in my 'homeless' days, I learned a person can survive pretty well, just living off the produce that grocers throw away, so it was common for me to 'dumpster dive' regularly, for throw-away produce, which I would then take to whatever spot I was camping in, wash thoroughly, remove bad spots, and then throw into a pot with some water, to cook and make 'soup'. (or some would call it 'hobo stew') I actually became quite healthy, while living on this diet...and lost a lot of the weight that had been plaguing me for years, and had a lot of strength and energy.. So I don't have any big problem with this type of 'less than perfect' produce, I'm happy to cut off any bad spots, and use it anyway...

I was fortunate, that in my homeless days, I ran into some 'professonal hobos' who taught me how to survive on the streets. Dumpster diving was one of my main lessons, and I learned there is a right way to do it, and a wrong way - one thing I was told, no matter how hungry you are, never eat meat that has been discarded, as you could get sick or die from bad meat, and you have no way of knowing how long it's been there. Stick to fruits and veggies, and only eat bread products if they look and feel pretty fresh. Cultivate a good relationship with the grocers and their employees, by not leaving a mess around the dumpster. Put back anything you drop on the ground, be nice to them when they see you, and out of sympathy, they may even bring you out some little 'goodies', like meat that is not yet spoiled, and breads and pastries that are still good..(I don't dumpster dive anymore, mainly because most grocers in the US have 'sealed' their
dumpsters now, so people can't get into them. But also because it embarrasses my relatives, and they don't want me feeding the grandchildren food that has been obtained in this way, even though I still consider it to be perfectly good food, if washed and handled properly)

Another trick I learned, was to hang around city parks that are near fast food restaurants, around lunch time, and watch for the people who bring their food to the park to eat, then throw half of it away...and when they leave, sneak over to the garbage can, and take what they left behind! (always got good scores by KFC restaurants - people often threw away whole pieces of chicken, unopened cole slaw containers, uneaten rolls, etc...) I once had a friend who made the rounds of fast food restaurants at night, around closing time, as many of these restaurants throw out anything that wasn't sold during the day, so it's relatively fresh stuff.... things like day old cheeseburgers, etc...

Occasionally, I like something a little fresher than the 'discarded' produce however, (there are some fruits and veggies, that just aren't good, unless they're fresh) so I will splurge, and buy some produce from the grocery store, but seldom do this more than twice a month. I might buy $10 worth of avocados, for instance, to make guacamole for a week, and some corn chips to go with...(I usually foregoe the other traditional garnishments, like cheese, tomatoes, lettuce, etc, as these are 'luxuries' I can seldom afford) That may be all I eat, that entire week, besides yogurt...

The main staple of my diet is simply YOGURT. I make sure I always have this, if nothing else... I don't plan to eat a lot of meat, if I do eat meat, it's chicken or fish, generally, and I usually rely on donations from the food bank, or other people, for any meat. (I have a deliberate policy of not buying meat, since it's not real great for my digestion, and most that's available to me, is not halal. So I primarily only eat meat that is donated to me.)

In order to not go crazy from this very strict diet however, I occasionally splurge on something totally decadent, like potato chips, ice cream, cookies, or candy, etc! (Although this may be the only food I have in my house, besides what is mentioned above)

So, at $20 a week, my grocery bill probably looks something like this: (with some variation) - $10 a week on 2 large tubs of plain yogurt (which is my basic dietary supplement and a frequent meal replacement.) $5 on potato chips, $2 on sour cream for chip dip, and $3 for 3 gallons bottled water...(I feel pure water is essential for health, so I do splurge on this a bit) The next week, I'll buy yogurt again, but with $7 or so on something else, like avocados, or whatever else tickles my fancy, and $2-$3 on water again...

Since I generally buy by the month however, I buy some things in bulk..so it's hard to estimate everything on a weekly basis. Every few months, I'll buy $10 worth of dates, and up to $40 worth of honey (I've currently found a place where I can buy a gallon of honey for $40, and since I use it a lot, and it lasts several months, I do invest the $40, because I rely on honey as a basic nutritional supplement, and also for medicinal purposes). I'll also invest in a large bottle of olive oil, every few months. And I will keep basic leavenings and spices around, so I can cook various things from scratch. (bottles of spice will often last me years) And always a few varieties of herb tea...

I figure if I have yogurt, dates, and honey in the house, I have what I need to survive, and everything else is 'gravy'....(and usually supplemented by sources outside of what my own income can provide - food banks, charity from relatives, etc...)

Oh yes, I also get occasional 'freebies' in the mail, as I spend a lot of time on the computer, looking for, and signing up for anything that is free...so I'll be getting occasonal free granola bars, sample cereals, things of that nature.

I've learned how to cook most things from scratch, so if I also invest in some flour and cooking grease, and some leavening, I make my own breads, etc... I'm learning how to make cheeses from yogurt, so that performs a dual use, and when I can, I grow a few veggies in the back yard, for some additional seasonal vegetables. (things don't grow that well in my backyard, so I'm probably only getting a few meals a season, out of this effort)

I also get a bit of extra food in the house, as a result of babysitting grandchildren, since the parents usually bring some food for the children, which I am also free to share, in moderate amounts. So I always make myself available for babysitting opportunities. (not just for food, however!) And my children sometimes give me foodstuff they dont want or use.

I make sure to always prowl around for the cheapest deals, often purchasing food at places like the 'Dollar Store', which helps cut down on costs. I try to keep stocked up on certain basic items, so I can make a wide range of things from scratch, also.

So to sum it up, I rely on yogurt as a basic staple, which I supplement with other things, as able. I expect to eat simple, light meals, very little meat, and cook most things from scratch. I fast regularly, and don't generally expect to eat more than one meal a day. I take advantage of any resources available to me, such as food banks, and other donations or give aways. I take time to find the best deals on food. I splurge a little now and then, to eliminate the drudgery and frustration of a limited diet/food budget.And I do for others, so that they will do for me...

So that is basically how I survive on $20 or so a week...here in the US of A...

(I'd be really interested to hear how other people do it)

Message was edited by:
sahara2

There are a lot of ways to save on food expenditures.

Most important one is to grow your own vegetables and fruit.
All you need is a garden (wich can be a problem in cities, I know) and a big freezer.  These guys literally have NEVER got to go to the store for their main ingredients.  They have everything for an entire season right there in their freezer. 

Friends of me do this.  They grow beans, carrots, salad, patatoes and a bunch of other stuff of wich i don't know the english name and am to lazy to look up.

Next to that, they also have their own chickens wich supplies them with eggs and chicken obviously, lol.  They also have quite a few rabbits

That in itself saves HEAPS of $$$.

Next, we have to look at cheap food obviously.  No 30$ steaks in a restaurant...  Rather for 0.20$ pasta/rice/mi (chinese pasta) for the same amount of food.

There are a lot of ways to save tons of money on food.  In the west though, people kinda love their steak too much :)

Also, we Belgians are well known for our food habbits.  Food is a social event down here, a symbol of "the good life".  The average Belgian person would give a lot of things up before starting to cut in the food budget like TV, internet, car, etc - the luxury goods.

A typical Belgian dinner with friends easily takes up about 2-3 hours (to just eat).  Going from apetisers to entree courses, soup, main dish, multiple deserts etc.  

Food is really important over here and most people will cut in their budgets in other places before moving on to food if they really have to.

Most people don't touch the food budget.  A good tasty meal with friends/family makes people happy and is a top priority in Belgian lifestyle.

I definitely believe anyone who can grow food, should, these days. It's the only way to stay healthy. (as the food you're buying in the store probably isn't very healthy, and might even be dangerous) Unless of course you are affluent enough to buy only organic food. And as expensive as it is, here in the States, you'd pretty much have to be a millionaire to afford it!

I have started growing food where I can, simply for economic reasons.. If I don't grow some vegetables, there aren't going to be many, in my diet...period. Although I am also concerned about the quality of the food I'm getting from the store, as well.

Unfortunately, not everyone has the opportunity or resources to grow their own food. (I don't personally feel I'm really LIVING, unless I'm able to do this!) And at times, I've noticed there seems to be a concerted effort, on the part of authorities and society, to even discourage or prevent it. Seems some would rather not see us become that 'self-sufficient'.

There are some problems that come with it, however. A much greater amount of water gets used, for instance, to keep a garden going. Is it really even economical, unless you have your own private water source? Some people can't afford that expense alone, and some people's landlords get upset about it, if they try to grow food on rented property, just because of the costs of water.

Storing food in the freezer is great, until the power goes out for a week, (or longer) then you've lost everything you worked so hard for. (I've lately started canning and dehydrating, as the power goes out in Washington, fairly regularly) And it's costing extra electricity to keep that freezer going. Not a cheap commodity either, these days.

I'm trying to move away from dependence on resources that can't always be depended on.

Of course gardening on a rental property is always a risky business, as you never know when your tenancy might end unexpectedly. Many people won't even venture it, unless they own the property they're planting on. Nothing worse than having to abandon a garden you've worked for months on, before having the opportunity to reap your hard-earned harvest...

With bird flu making the rounds, raising any kind of poultry could soon become risky, also. I've already made the decision not to have any birds on the property. (not that the city will allow me any animals, currently. Although with the economy being the way it is, I think they should be issuing 'livestock permits' to all poor people in the country, so we at least have the option to raise our own food, when the economy isn't providing us with other options.)

I think the focus of most Americans is on 'things', so they will gladly go hungry, in order to obtain the 'things' which equal 'acceptance' in American society. Although food can also be a 'status symbol', here in America, and there is nothing Americans love more, than rubbing someone's nose in the fact that they can eat (and live) better than someone else.... So definitely, they will indulge, when they are able. But not until they've reached a level of social and financial success that enables them to adequately 'keep up with the Jones's'... After all, keeping up with the Jones is a matter of life or death, in America... You're not considered a 'proper Capitalist', unless your are consuming at expected levels... You're practically regarded as a 'subversive' or a criminal, until your consumerism reaches expected levels...

I think it's pretty ridiculous that some common food items have become darn near as expensive as 'gold', for us city dwellers. Here in a seaport town, for instance, we pay premium prices for SEAFOOD. The same as anyone else in the country would pay. You'd think it was 'imported' or something! And they want an arm and a leg these days, for some tiny slab of tough, poor quality meat! That's what happens when food begins to be thought of as a 'status symbol', rather than the simple substenance that we all require. You're not just paying to 'eat', you're paying to 'belong'.

I've quit eating beef, since 'Mad Cow' started becoming prevalent in America. It's amazing how many other Americans are completely ignoring this danger, and continue to eat beef manufactured in this country, despite the real danger it clearly poses to theirs and their family's health. I guess it's that 'status' thing, again... You're not a 'real American' unless you consume COW regularly!

I think in some ways, the people in some '3rd world' countries have got it much better than many of us Americans, if they are simply able to own a little chunk of land, grow their own food, and raise their own meat. That's more than many Americans can lay claim to.

Message was edited by:
sahara2

I've quit eating beef, since 'Mad Cow' started becoming prevalent in America. It's amazing how many other Americans are completely ignoring this danger, and continue to eat beef manufactured in this country, despite the real danger it clearly poses to theirs and their family's health. I guess it's that 'status' thing, again... You're not a 'real American' unless you consume COW regularly!

That's  what my ex girlfriend had..mad cow disease. 

I hear a lot of talk about all the meat you're buying, and apparently you get some apples once a year, but do you ever eat any vegetables??

That meat is not very healthy, if it's coming from a grocery store. You should really get yourself educated on the additives they put in meat and 'growth hormones' etc...and don't forget 'mad cow' either...

I forgot to mention this property I am currently renting, has also been blessed with 3 fruiting plum trees, although for a long time, we couldn't use them, because of some kind of worm infestation, but last year, they actually produced a good, worm-free crop, unexpectedly, and we had quite a good little harvest of plums.

There used to be an apple tree too, but it was very old, didn't produce many apples, and fell down on my roof last year! Put a rather large hole in the roof!

I'm having a nice sunny day today, went out and watered my 'container vegetable garden' this morning, made some rose water from roses picked from the rose bush that grows on the vacant property next door, and hung out a clothesline, for some summer clothes drying! (we don't get too many sunny days in western Washington, so excuse me if I'm a little over-excited!)

It looks like the turnips I planted, may only be producing turnip greens. They have about a foot of so of leaves now, but the 'turnip' part is still tiny. I wonder if I should just let them continue to grow, or should I just consider that the turnips are never going to get very big, because of poor soil or something? (Anyone know anything about growing turnips?) I had a dream last night, that they all went to seed, and I barely harvested even any greens from them, and I noticed some of the leaves are starting to turn red around the edges, so I wonder if they're getting almost to the point of going to seed? (that's if turnips even actually do that?)  Is that normal? Does it mean I should start harvesting them now, or should I let them continue to grow, till I see those turnips getting some size to them? (I love turnips, but can never afford to buy them!)

I've noticed root crops don't do too well in this soil, except for radishes and potatoes. I wonder why?

Most of my corn didn't come up, only about 7 plants, (I planted about 30, I guess) and something has been digging them up, much to my dismay! Already killed 2 of the plants, so I only have 5 left now! I'm not sure if it's cats, squirrels, possums, raccoons, birds, or rats, that are the culprits, as we have all of the above around the area.

Some type of bug has also been munching on my broccoli, anasazi beans, and sunflowers, pretty regularly. (also had a dream last night, that bugs ate up all my broccoli!) But I'm determined not to use pesticides, in order to keep this crop 'organic', so I guess the bugs will get some, and I will get some...Inshah Allah.

Put a gaze (might not be the correct english term...) around the plants to make sure animals can't get to them.

Off course, some animals will manage to dig under it, but it will at least exclude cats etc from getting to it.

While maybe not big, it will make a difference.

I'm not familiar with garderning terms, in general, so 'gaze' may or may not be an English term....perhaps will google it later...

Thanks for the tip.

It appears a 'cutworm' may have cut the tops off about 3 of my sunflowers yesterday... I'm afraid I may lose all the sunflowers, at the rate it's going. The broccoli and turnips are really taking off now, though. (although it's still mostly just 'turnip greens', where the turnips are concerned)

Could someone explain to me why I'm getting pop-ups for antivirus software, when I try to log on to this site?

Hi Sahara,

Love to read your experience in gardening. Going back to nature is the best course to live a healthy live. Whatever we can grow on our own is much more healthier than what we can get from the supermarket. From what I understand, if the food that you grow are eaten by other animals, it means it is healthy. Meaning it is fit for consumption without much side effects. If even animals shun the food, it means there is something that is not safe for them. If its not safe for them, it will not be safe for us too.

I also understand that gardening takes alot of patience. Well I only speak from what I hear, but in reality, I don't even have a flower pot. Living in a flat without much space and furthermore, I have no time to water the plants.

I am glad that you have at least some spot of land for you to grow your own food and lessen the burden of buying. 

I wish you best of luck in your gardening and hope that it will be more fruitful in future and for the anti virus software, perhaps our software engineer (MeAgain) may be able to assist you.

Salam alaikum

MeAgain is the software engineer?? (That's disheartening....all things considered.)

I just hope the American spies next door, don't sneak over and slip poison into/onto my crops. I'm already somewhat doubtful about the water supply...(and it wouldn't be the first time a neighbor has tried to poison me)

Well, you just do the best you can, with what you have to work with, I guess...

I've been noticing a hole that keeps growing larger, next to one of the few corn plants that managed to survive. And the plant itself appears to be yellowing a bit. I wonder if something is knawing on it, from the roots up?

I've noticed something does seem to be focusing on the roots of the plants, digging the whole plant up, and just eating the roots. They even attacked my potted aloe plant! And something totally demolished the chamomile. I only managed to save one container, out of the 5 I had planted....

I guess that's something to consider, that animals wouldn't eat the food, unless it was good. (Although I hope the rats never figure that out, about the poison I keep putting out for them!) I have heard that insects mostly go after the less healthy plants.

I think mostly my garden is suffering from a lack of adequate sun. As we've really only had about a week, total, of sunny days, this June... Sure hope July is better. The sunflowers are barely hanging on.

MeAgain is the software engineer?? (That's disheartening....all things considered.)

I didn't quite get what you meant by that, but whatever.

Your problem could have a variaty of reasons, to big to give you a single solution that will definatly work.

Is it just IOL?  Have you installed any programs recently?  Any programs that apparantly installed by themselves by visiting a website?

If that is the case, I suggest you start by removing those.  You can do that via Start - Control Panel - Add/Remove software.  Wait for the list to load, highlight the software you wish to remove and click "remove".

Chances are that you've got yourselves a little worm or spyware program.  it will be difficult to remove that without having the necissary tools installed wich are dedicated to remove those.

A solution then might be "system recovery".

You can find that under the "accessories - system" menu in the start menu.  Your pc places "recovery points" automatically on a regular basis.  In the frame that pops up, choose a date with a recovery point (those dates are presented in bold) on wich you know for 100% that it was working then.  The overall status of your system on that date will be recovered and new installed programs will be removed, including those nasty ones.

Be adviced that if you've had your pc for a long time and never defragmented, formatted, reïnstalled and basicly still work on an installed version of windows wich is at least 1.5 years old, this tool can be very very slow. 

There's also a chance that it might not work properly if your hardrive is stuffed with data for more then 70%

Also, don't pick a date to far back in the past.  Think days or a few weeks at most, not months.

If the problem persists, format your pc and reïnstall windows or have someone do it for you.  Preferably someone who'll do it for free.  It's ridiculous what stores charge for something that stupid.  It's basicly "insert cd, click 'next, next, next, next, next', write serial number, click 'next, next, next, finish' --> enjoy windows.  lol

If you reïnstall, try to get a hold of some anti-virus software as well to prevent this from happening in the future.  I could put free ones online for you as well if you'ld have access to broadband.

This is what I mean:

Some kind of fence like thingy you put around your plants, or entire garden even, to prevent animals that walk over land from reaching it.

Hi Sahara,

I've lived on garden raised veggies all my life.  My garden is not so big now that the young'uns are grown...weeding and picking is hard on the back.  But I will be canning and freezing my share of winter fare when harvest time comes. 

I don't know about Washington, but where I live (in the Midwest), turnips are planted in late summer and harvested in the fall.  This time of year your turnips may get hot and not nearly as sweet as the fall raised ones but they will still grow okay.  You can harvest them at any time whenever they get to an edible size.  Just pull as many as you want for a meal and leave the rest in the ground for the next meal, but try to eat them up before the tops go to seed. 

And good luck with your broccoli this time of year.  It is generally planted in early early spring.  Bugs (little green worms) LOVE broccoli and if you don't want to find them hiding in the head, you will figure out some spray to douse them with on a regular basis.  Jerry Baker has lots of neat ideas for repelling bugs without poison.  http://www.jerrybaker.com/ 

Radishes and potatoes are also planted in early spring.  My father-in-law always planted his potatoes as close to St. Patrick's Day as possible (March 17).

I would LOVE to give you some of my corn.  Hubby got carried away with it this year and I have 10 rows of some of the prettiest corn we have ever raised; usually 4 or 5 rows will produce way plenty for us. 

As for mad cow disease in USA, well that's just silly.  The only case of mad cow disease recorded in the US was from a cow brought in from Canada.  http://www.mad-cow-facts.com/News-Commentary/avery-mad-cow.htm  Now go out and enjoy some nice delicious safely raised American beef! 

Rosa

Hi Rosa,

Lucky for you and Sahara to have gardens of your own. In land scarce Singapore,only  those who have landed property do have gardens.

Regarding mad cow diseases, I think it is true. From what I read, these diseases are the results of the food that were fed to these cows. They were fed with unnatural food that were mixed with meat and chemicals which are not their fitrah or their natural food. Cows and goats are herbivourous animals and their natural food are plants not meat. Human whose greed knows no bounds, created these food in order to make these cows produce more milk and meat. However we the humans are the ones that suffer from the side effects. 

Brgds

Been meaning to say thank you, Rosa Lia, for the tips on gardening. Turnips really are mostly a mystery to me. I'm happy to report they are getting bigger by the day (though there is perhaps an issue with overcrowding, as I have planted them pretty close together, in planter boxes, due to limited space/dirt)

I planted these in early spring, (May) and it's clear they're going to be ready long before summer ends. Didn't realize they mature so quickly. So one probably could get away with planting them in the fall. (although in Washington, the growing season is so short, that might not work. I may try a second planting this year, however, cause I really do love turnips...)

So I may have a problem with bugs in the broccoli, eh?

I planted as early as possible, for Washington. (which means, no earlier than May, unless you are starting them indoors) I did start the broccoli indoors in April, but did not put them outside, till May, cause I've learned the hard way that anything planted before that, usually doesn't make it. (the main problems being late frosts, or even snow or hail in April, and windy, blustery, cold weather, which knocks the baby plants right over, or is just too cold for them to grow) Although I've also discovered that the plants that really like sun, can be planted in May, but they will still refuse to poke their little heads up, till June, cause it's just not warm enough!

I've found I can plant potatoes almost any time here, and they do well, no matter how bad I neglect them. (in fact, a patch I planted a couple of years ago, keeps coming back, unintended!) The only thing that really hurts them, is a couple of hard freezes. This year I'm planting them in a deep planter box, to see how that goes...(I'm hoping the whole box, which is about 3 feet deep, will fill up)

One of the problems Washington has, (aside from a very short growing season, and not very sunny weather, generally), is very rocky, acidic soil. Being mountain country, (and 'the Evergreen State'), the soil is not all that friendly to cultivation. You've really got to work it, to get it into shape, to grow anything that isn't totally native to the region. Requires lots of tilling and composting...

One thing about turnips, I've been noticing, they like a lot of sun. I planted some in a sunny area, and some, as an experiment, I'm letting grow kind of 'wild', in a more shaded area. The turnips planted in the sunny area are 5 times as big as the ones planted in the shady area! (the mixed beans I planted in the shade, seem to be doing really well, however)

I don't know where you got your info about Mad Cow in the US, but there's definitely been more than one case reported, in the last few years, (both in humans and cows) and American beef producers haven't even fully committed yet, to leaving off of the tainted feed that causes the problem! (they're sneaking it in, whenever possible, because it's cheaper) And gov't regulation of their operations, has lessened, rather than being more strictly enforced, since this problem first became apparent. (I should know, I've been signing petitions regularly, trying to get the US gov't to enforce stricter food safety regulations. The current problem is, too much money is being funneled into Bush's wars, leaving very little funding, for other national issues and imperatives) So, where I am concerned, I continue to regard the US beef supply as being less than safe... Hardly worth taking a chance. Not that I'm a big meat eater, in any case...I have trouble digesting beef, even in the best of circumstances, and this slop they sell you at the grocery stores, (for inflated prices), almost doesn't deserve to be called 'meat'! (I've had real beef, from a real cattle ranch before, so I know the difference)

Even if Mad Cow weren't an issue, there would still be other problems, like the growth hormones and antibiotics they pump into the cows, by the gallons...dyes etc, added after butchering, and generally unsanitary conditions at meat packing plants. (I usually won't buy any meat, unless it's at least labeled 'organic') And then there's been the reluctance of gov't agencies lately, to inform the public of the identities of manufacturers who are selling us 'bad beef'. (so we're not even being allowed the opportunity to protect ourselves) Seems to me like the beef industry pretty much has the gov't in their back pocket...Not a situation that is condusive to honest and responsible regulation...

Being single, my neighbours think I don't eat properly. Heck, I think I eat better than most of them do. They are always inviting me to come to dinner. Like they feel sorry for me or something. What I do is, I buy good food on special..After checking the expiry date of cource. I have a freezer. I bought big  salmon slabs (half salmon), cleaned and dresses...5.00 for enough for about 3 big meals. Then I bought lean ground beef..1.59 a pound. I bought about 15 pounds. I put it in my george foreman grill to get all the fat out, before eating it. Then I bought roast beef..lean..on special 1.99 a pound. Chicken breasts too..boneless skinless. 1.89 a pound..I take the skin off anyways and fat before cooking it. My friend has an apple farm..in the summer I get apples for near nothing..i pick them myself.

My dad was a chef, guess some cooking ideas came from him. He wanted to teach me the chef trade, or skill.. but,  that was not for me. Good money though, in big fancey hotels etc.

Greetings to all my friends at Islam on line!

I miss all of you!

 As far as food is concnerned, I feel pretty lucky that I was raised on a "mediterrean diet" , as it costs very little to survive on such a diet! Beans, pasta, fruits, vegetables and chickens are pretty cheap and/or easy to raise, so, I guess, if I had to,  it would not be that expensive to survive in case of a crisis. Our housing is paid, but taxes are very high-and we get litle in return( sadly, our money is going to pay for Bush's wars).Local property taxes are also extremely high, as are insurance costs.

Things here in the USA are pretty exprensive for young people starting out. Salaries run about $500 week for young professionals, and rent is about $1000 a month.  Buying a small house can cost up to $1800 a month-that's almost a whole monthly salary for a  working single person, just for the house!

My son is also paying $200 a month for health insurance and $150 a month in car insurance(health care is expensive here). So, it's pretty hard to survive here in the US on one salary, even if you are a professional.

Health care is generally very expensive( I paid $100. for a doctor visit for a simple skin infection; my son paid $120 for antibiotics to treat a simple sinus infecion)

So, my frirends, our streets in America are not paved in gold!!  ;-)))

Hopefully, we'll get a  Democrat in the Whie House in 2008-expenses for the working people should be lower if that happens ;-)

Chickens may not be so safe anymore, with 'Bird Flu' going around...at least if you're raising them yourself.

Where in the US do you live?

Not all areas are as expensive as what you are quoting. Except where income is concerned, that remains quite low. (Unless you work for the gov't, or for some company that has regular gov't contracts, of course!)

Housing costs can vary widely, depending on where you choose to live. I think I could always find a better deal than $1800 a month, if I were buying a house. Although I might have to go looking for a 'fixer upper'!

My son, (who lives in Washington), works for a landscaping company, I think he makes about $9.00 an hour, and he was recently approved for a $200,000 home loan. He's contemplating buying a nice 2 bedroom house, for $900 a month.

This is a boy who got into a lot of trouble in his youth, who dropped out of school, then got a GED later, who never went to college, and who has mostly been working in 'unskilled' labor all his life. He's buying a house before anybody else in the family! I think anyone who has any kind of regular employment in America, can manage to get approved for some kind of home loan. (of course there will be un-Islamic interest involved)

It seems the places that have the best prices on real estate, also have the most limited income opportunities, unfortunately. So, you can get really cheap rent, and cheap real estate, mostly in the places where the economy is also depressed! (real estate is currently really cheap, in the 'Tornado Belt'!)

In Washington, you can pretty much buy a house, even if you're on welfare, as long as you have good credit, and can come up with a down payment. (the down payment is usually the hardest part, for people on welfare)

Over in eastern WA, I know numerous people who bought 8-10 acres of virgin land (then built their own homes), for a $500 down payment, and about $80 a month! (the total price of the real estate was about $5000.) Of course they had to endure some hardship for awhile, living in tents or camper trailers, or makeshift cabins, till the 'real house' got finished. Some just built their own log cabins, and what-not...(some lived in their 'makeshift cabins', for 10 years or longer)

Lots of people in America do without car insurance (even though it's 'required') and medical insurance. (just go to the emergency room, when you get sick - they are required by law to provide you with treatment, if it's an emergency. If it's not an emergency...try some herbal or home remedies, you probably aren't going to die)

I don't see how the 'working people' are ever going to get a break, if all our money keeps going to thieves, liars, and criminals, like G. Bush... Actually, I'd like to see the money going back to all Americans - the 'working', and 'non-working' alike....

Instead, it's all being gobbled up by the gov't and military. I guess you can see what the 'national priorities' are.

Congraulations on your son's good fortune! I wish him many blessings with his new home.

We just moved from NJ to Florida. The property taxes there were $8000 a year. Many in my family are paying $12,000 a year in property taxes. It's really ridiculous. I feel sorry for retired or disabled people.

RE. health insurance: Believe me, those hospitals and doctors will you if they have to to get paid. It's not worth it to not have health insurance.  You can lose everything. It's crazy that we are the "richest" country on earth and we can't pay for basic health care for out citizens.

Anyway, young famililes, if they want ot live in areas where they can earn a decent living. have to pay through the nose for the basics. It's a shame!

Nice talking to you! 

$8000 a year! How ridiculous! I think the highest I've ever heard of property taxes being, in WA, is $1000 a year...(for an average sized house, and that would be one of the higher rates)

Seems like all those 'old colony' states are very expensive places to live. (I guess all the millionaire politicians kind of inflate the cost of living for the average folks?) I doubt Florida will be much better, with it being a 'tourist state' and all...(although a dozen hurricanes a year may be scaring the tourists away, so you might get some better rates down there now.)

As for doctors, I'm beginning to think that the longer you stay away from them, the longer you are likely to live. It's been working for me, anyway... I never go to a doctor, unless I'm clearly bleeding to death, have obviously broken a bone, (in a way that can't be lived with. I fracture toes and tape them up myself, all the time), or am in some kind of unbearable pain. And maybe for having kids... (as those pain meds are nice during labor, though hardly a true necessity. But yes, you would want to take every precaution to make sure those babies get a fighting chance of survivial)

I mean, what's the most they're going to do for you, anyway? They're relatively skilled at setting a bone, sewing up holes, or prescribing pain meds, when you're in a great deal of pain. But they **** at managing any kind of chronic illness (takes them years to even diagnose it, in many cases), they don't have any certain cure for most of the cancers we're all falling victim to, (but they're certainly willing to put you through several years of torture, trying to 'cure' it, before you finally die anyway), their antibiotic medicines barely work anymore, due to their over-using them, most prescription meds are too dangerous to even consider taking, (due to all the possible 'side effects'), and most illness is pretty much avoidable anyway, if we would all just take better care of ourselves, (and that's probably the only thing that ultimately can really help us, anyway), you're taking a big chance if you let them operate on you, in anything but the most necessary of circumstances, (with killer, antibiotic resistant viruses now roaming the hospitals, the level of incompetence and medical 'mistakes', at an all time high, and with the average medical technician allowing hidden political and social agendas to effect the way they do their jobs. Not to mention they all know they make more money off you, if you're sick, so there's really no motivation to make you well...except the possibility of a lawsuit, which their insurance pays for, and the gov't protects them from, anyway)

And this is what Americans are willing to pay thousands and thousands of dollars for?! What a jip! If anything, we should just stop going to these people, and stop paying them, altogether! You're probably better off with the local 'medicine man'!

It's crazy that we are the "richest" country on earth and we can't pay for basic health care for out citizens.

Well, that's exactly the reason why you are the "richest" country on earth.

You don't have a system of social security.

Over here in belgium, it goes a LOT further then only basic health care.

It stretches to education, welfare, asylum, retirement, renovation subsidaries, etc...

That's one of the reasons why Belgium is placed at the top among a few others by UN stats as "nations where life is good".  Thing is though, we pay a lot more taxes.  At the moment, I earn a good 2000 euro a month.  Of that 2k, I see only 1.2k appear on my bank account at the end of the month.  46%-48%  goes straight to the government. 

When I say to an american who does a similar job what I earn, they usually laugh at me thinking "what a hungry check".  Thing is though, from that 1.2k, I only need to pay my rent of my home (and daily expenses like food etc off course).  All the rest is basicly taken care off.  Health insurance is unheared of here.  Everybody has it by default, it comes with the Belgian nationality.

We Belgians on the other hand, are amazed that an American can actually go completely bankrupt by falling ill or braking a leg when he doesn't have insurance...

Here it's like "ow crap, I broke my arm" and at the same time we're thinking "WHOEHOE!  6 weeks vacation!".  We sit at home on sick leave and get payed anyway by the government's health department.  In the end, we contribute to that fund every month (that 46%!).

Cool ha?  :)

I hear in some countries, where all health care is paid by the gov't, they also penalize doctors who don't make their patients well. They really need to get that going here in the US, as it's clear the doctors would much rather have us wasting away of cancer, or some other expensive-to-treat disease here, since that's what they make the most money from.