I have to disagree with the pope.  I don't think Islamic people's desire to get rid of thieves and solve robbery activities problem that are perpatrated by the thieves in the U.S., Israel, and EU is anti-God unless the Pope's God is Satan.

Any God that support Bush robbery activities and disapprove of anyone who attempt to halt the the spread of Bush robbery and murder campaigns must be Satan.

WHY????

With all the chances Muslims have had to speak out on the violence perpetrated against Christians and America yet up until now there has only been silence.  No real effort at all has ever been put forth on the Muslim's part to condemn terrorism, bin Laden, Al Qaeda or any other terrorist network. Then the pope speaks out against it and all of a sudden they all grew tongues!  The fact that you're speaking out so vehemently now against the pope and using such antagonisic and disingenuous language i.e. "crusades" when you have renounced peace all along speaks volumes regarding your true views.

"That's a gross generalization. There are many Muslims who speak out against terrorism - both that of al-Qaeda and Bush - if you have a closer look at Islamonline.net you'll find how strongly many Muslims oppose violence. The Pope's words are meant to inflame and cause strife. "

You mean I have to consult google to find a Muslim who speaks out against violence???  Why are they condemning violence on an Islam message board instead of speaking out publically in the media like the terrorists and supporters of terrorism are? 

I want to hear from these Muslims who speak out against al-Qaeda and Bush without having to hunt them down.  Where are the Muslim clerics??  Show me their public professions of peace.

Thanks.

hey! i just want to ask, why r u so mad at muslims. The people who are muslim and they r terrorists, will go to hell! i mean we will speak against them and do what we have to do to stop them, we want to stop them just as much as you do. OK!! tell me.......how do you feel about christian and jewish terrorists?? Y can't they be as bad as muslim terrorists???? what im trying to say is.....muslims who are terrorists and say they r muslims...are not. We, in our religion forbid things like that.

thank you!  

joseph kony and his group of rapists and murderers who are fighting for what.....some government based on the Ten Commandments?

Couldn't have put it better.

Thank you, rashad06511.

I for one do believe that Islam is a peaceful religion.  I just don't understand why more Muslims aren't proclaiming it (especially the Muslim leaders).  

With all the chances Muslims have had to speak out on the violence perpetrated against Christians and America yet up until now there has only been silence. No real effort at all has ever been put forth on the Muslim's part to condemn terrorism, bin Laden, Al Qaeda or any other terrorist network. Then the pope speaks out against it and all of a sudden they all grew tongues! The fact that you're speaking out so vehemently now against the pope and using such antagonisic and disingenuous language i.e. "crusades" when you have renounced peace all along speaks volumes regarding your true views.

I can understand your frustration Jarren.  I am glad you asked this. Let me make it clear to you from a non-Muslim perspective.  The Muslim had been fighting against violence, torture, mass murders, mass human degrations, and mass robbery since the thieves in the U.S. and Europe decide to murder the Muslim for their resources.  It was Christians, at lease the violenct elements of the Christians, that harbor and support these thieves.

The reason why Bin Laden attacked the robbery powerhouse in the U.s. and taught American a lesson that their habit of robbery can not be sustained, is simply because he is trying to stop the forces of violence and evil that had live on the blood of countless innocent people both in the Muslim world and other world.  The people in Iraq, Palestine, Lebonon, and Afganistan are going their best to halt not only terrorism but the robbery operation that Bush and his co-robbers had perpatrated against the Muslim people.  So to say that the Muslim did nothing to halt violence is wrong.  The pope could had help the Muslim people fight thieves like Bush and his henchmen at least chase  them out of Iraq and other place that they currently robbing and murdering the people there, but instead the Pope codemn the victims of robbery and effort to chase the thieves out.

I don't like violence, but as we seen before when the world tried to stop Bush and his henchment from murdering the Iraqi people for their oil by protested peacefully, but the thieves went ahead and murder the Iraqi people and detroyed their home anyway.  This show us that the thieves only understand the language of violence.  As much as we hate violence, we have no choice but the use the kind of language that the thieves understand best.  It is the responsibility of the pope if he claim to be a man of God, to stop Bush and his henchmen from murdering people for resources, but instead he advocate on the thieves's behave.  This is the reason why the Muslims who had been victims of robbery are angry.  I hope you understand the the seriousness of the pope comments that aid the thieves in the U.s. and Israel.

i openly say as i muslim that i  am against those terrorists like bin laden. You know how bad we have been treated (thanks for your understanding) but still in the faith of ISLAM we are not permitted to kill innocent people even if they are from a country we are not happy with. Muslims should negotiate and talk things over VIOLENCE IS DEFINITELY NOT THE ANSWER. I and many of my fellow muslims especially in america comdemn this violence, whether we be in Iraq, the UK, Denmark, Saudia Arabia, or even the United States of America. We have CAIR (council on american-islamic affairs) is here to protect us visit cair.com. Those strong individuals defend us against any misunderstanding, bias, and attacks in the media, Thank GOD.  I stand right beside you against all terrorists attacks and if you see people calling us terrorists please interject and say the truth. Thankyou and peace

I agree with you.  No one  want to use violent.  No one want to die and no one want to kill.  Technically all religion are against violence in the perfect world.  God does not creat human to kill each other that's why all religion are against it not just Muslims.  This is somthing both of us can understand and agree on.  I never say Bin Laden and any robbery resistance against the thieves in the West robbery activities in the Muslim world or in other world are not terrorists.  Of course they are, and I disagree with their tactics because I think Bin Laden's tactics kill more innocent than thieves he should have been more careful and only target the guilties. But what kind I say, these thieves had been using innocent as humanshields for years.  They had living among the innocents using them as protections.  Just look at those thieves and their henchmen in Afganistan, they even use candies to lure innocents little kids to the tanks and humvee to make sure these kids die if the thieves are attacks.  This is sicking to me seeing thieves using people as humanshield shields like this.

Thieves like Bush and his co-robbers always provoke violence by killing your brothers, sisters, friends, mom, dad, and your neigbors and start robbing people to gain resources.  This evil things are not new.  These kinds of thieves in the U.S had been doing this since they stop using Africans people as animal slaves due to their fierce resistant.

If we can negotiate with the thieves peacefully, all these people would have not die and Bin Laden could have just asked the thieves to stop robbing the Arab world without having to bomb the thieves powerhouse on 9/11 and non of the innocent American would have not die along with the thieves.  The problem is this world is not perfect and we have thieves that only understand the language of violence, death, tortures, mass destructions, human degration, raping, and other evil doings.  These thieves will call you terrorists whether you are or not.  Their intention is to demonize you and then kill you, whether you retaliate or not.

So, my message is if you don't want to use violence than fine, but please do not use message that will aid the thieves or encourage the thieves to kill more and rob more.  Those people that risk or lost their live stop the thieves maybe against Islam's teaching of non-violence but what choice do they have they are going to die anyway with such dangerous theives roaming in this world.  A good Muslim should at least do something to stop these thieves from robbing and murdering people.

We don't need a non-muslim perspective to defend muslims or to justify bin ladins crimes against humanity. We need qur'an and the way of prophet Muhammad to guide muslims out the darkness many Muslims are leading the Muslim world community into.

We don't need a non-muslim perspective to defend muslims or to justify bin ladins crimes against humanity. We need qur'an and the way of prophet Muhammad to guide muslims out the darkness many Muslims are leading the Muslim world community into.

I am not defending you, just so you understand that.  I don't even know if you are a Muslim talking like that.  The thieves that Bin Laden try to kill is somehow good, and those that thieves murder and rob everyday is somehow evil.  I just don't get it.  Are you even sure you are Muslim?  I don't mean to offend you, you sound contradictory. I don't know how you can save humanity by encourage the thieves that rule U.s.to kill people.

Dear Songyang,

May Peace, Understanding and forgiveness enter your mind and heart.

I am truely sorry that you feel you have been robbed. Could you tell me what has been taken? Was it some material item like the oil found throughout  Muslim lands that has been taken without compensation? Or was is some non-material thing such as your pride and feeling of self worth that has been taken by the self appointed leaders and dictators in the Mid-East?

I also am a bit confused by your claim that "The Muslim had been fighting against violence, torture, mass murders, mass human degrations, and mass robbery since the thieves in the U.S. and Europe decide to murder the Muslim for their resources." It was my understanding that the world price for your resources was set by OPEC which if I am not mistaken is headed by Muslim nations. Is it your claim that I and others in the US are somehow stealing the oil right from the ground under your home and that we are not paying the price you demand?

You have a common phrase that you use in almost all your posts calling the people of the US and Europe Thieves and Robbers every chance you can, yet you provide no proof or current examples. I do not think your constant derogatory remarks demonstrate any interest in having a dialog with others.

It seems you only want to justify the murder that is occurring with specific intent when one individual beheads a bound kidnap victim. Is this the act of a virtuous man? To me this certainly is not the act of a civilized human being. Should I consider this behavior acceptable to Allah? It must be because I see no mass demonstrations against such acts. I see no effort from Muslims to put a stop to the daily murder of other Muslims. Should I consider the failure to act as proof that bombings of innocents in the market place or  children on their way to school is behavior called for by a peaceful phrophet?

Is it your position that the US and not the Sabah family rule Kuwait?

Why do you not complain about the "Evil US" kicking Sadam Hussain out of Kuwait in 1991? I suppose it was acceptable for Qasim to invade Kuwait in 1961 but I understand it was evil for "British thieves" who stopped him.

Is it your position that Saudi Arabia is a land of robbers since they supported the effort to return the land of Kuwait to its people?

Is it possible that thievery is acceptable when committed by Muslims?

Before you start ranting about my questions you need to know that while I consider myself a Christian (primarily because of my upbringing) I do not attend organized meetings as I have found that man has corrupted the intent behind the teachings of Christ.

You could say I belong to the Church of the Golden Rule. In case there is no such concept in Islam it is that I should only do unto others as I would have them do to me.

We should have taken Pope's remarks as healthy debate rather than such violent reaction worldwide? I hope he is not against anybody than violence? Howmany people died just becouse of his remarks howmany churches tourched? for what? He has the right to express his concern? It is not only his concern but throughout the world. We have to defeat the violence. We have to join together to defeat the enemis of peace. Religion has the responsibility to motivate followers spiritually. Violence is not their job. We have to bring back the world to the correct path.So let us together work for it.

Thanks

hey buddy,

for once can you please write a post w/o using the word "thieve, murder or Bush."

It appears that songyang is so caught up in his hatred of all non muslims that he is on his own little jihad.

So that all understand my use of this word of many meanings I am using  "Holy war: the struggle to defend Islam, with force if necessary" as he clearly has no interest in

The struggle to build a good Muslim society or internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible for it has been clearly stated many times that Muslims are peace loving tolerant people.

Personally when I see a word with many meanings I look to the actions practiced and based on current Muslim actions there is really only one meaning and that is the violent one. The others are only used when a Muslim wants to avoid explaining the barbaric actions of some Muslims.

It appears that songyang is so caught up in his hatred of all non muslims that he is on his own little jihad.

If my posts make me appear to be caught in hatred of all non-Muslims in your eyes, then you are not reading my posts carefully.  It is important that people read my post carefully to not misunderstand me.  First, I am not a Muslim or an Arab.  Here is the prove:<img src="http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-9/1215101/song.JPG" width=318 height=469>
And I am not against Muslim or non-Muslim, but I am voicingmy opinion on the thieves's in the U.s. and Israel effort to kill people for financial and resources gain.  I don't hate anyone. Even the thieves like Bush and his supporters I don't hate. I am just concern about their evil doings that can be selfdestructives.

So that all understand my use of this word of many meanings I am using  "Holy war: the struggle to defend Islam, with force if necessary" as he clearly has no interest in

I am not here to defend Islam or any othe religion.  Religion is not why I am here.  I am here simply to warn people both the thieves and others that robbery is not the best interest of the American people and the jews or anyone that think robbery is good for making a living.

The Islamic clerics have been making vicious anti-Christian statements practically on a daily basis without any Christians foaming at the mouth, but whenever a non-Muslim leader speaks up in defense of his religion, all hell breaks loose. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.... When are we going to learn that there must be no tolerance of intolerance?

See this is the thing. Christian allow themselves to be used a base to rob and kill people around the world.  This on going robbery, torturing, mass murdering, and mass destruciton leave Christian with an imppression that they are religion of Satan.  It is reasonable and safty cautious to label Christian as religion of violence and robbery, because it is doing it.  Anyone who disagree with this concept must learn to differ it or defend it in a different way instead of demonizing Islam, a religion that is actually fighting against the thieves and evil forces lead by the Bush and his robbery team.

I agree that anti-Christian speech and ideology is common in the East, Middle East. 

But some Christians do believe in the prophecy that Rome will be taken over as well, although they do not "worry about it" or make a fuss over it like you said.

When are we going to learn that there must be no tolerance of intolerance?

When God finally says, enough is enough!

Best Regards

It appears that the representatives of the devils are losing their wars in Iraq, Afghanistan etc! This is evidence from the statements of this leader of the falsehood! It seems that his statements are designed to bolsters support behind the crusaders devils. Otherwise why would he label Jihad, purpose of which is to repel all types of evils, as violence? Crusaders are truly scared of Jihad! Well, they should be scared because they will be defeated and humiliated by the hands of the believers of Islam, Insha Allah. The process has started! 

By the way, except his enmity towards Islam, what else one can expect from a kaafir like this pope who is leading billions of people away from the Way of our Creator to the way of Satan? This enemy of Allah and His religion is in fact worse than cattle because he understands not the truth although he has a heart, he sees not although he has eyes and hears not although he has ears. He is one of those whom Allah has described in the Holy Quran. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

7:179. And surely, We have created many of the jinns and mankind for Hell. They have hearts wherewith they understand not, they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not (the truth). They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones.

In fact, Allah has described a kaafir like him as the worse of the creatures in the Holy Quran! Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

98:6. Verily, those who disbelieve [(in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)] from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.

My message to this worst of the creature, the enemy of Allah and Islam, is that he should stop lying against Allah and Islam and should stop following the way of Satan. Otherwise he should remember Allah’s following promise:

Certainly! You (disbelievers) and that which you are worshipping now besides Allah, are (but) fuel for Hell! (Surely), you will enter it. [Quran 21:98]

The violance infliged by followers of christian faith is beyond description. remember the religious wars which lasted for 2 decades and took the life of about eleven milion people and muslims were not part of it. The two World wars killed 51 million people and islam had nothing to do with that."

This is no comparison whatsoever. WWI and WWII were not religious wars. There was the Crusades and Inqusitions, both of which were prompted by Muslims stealing Christian land. Two wrongs do not make a right, so I am not taking up for Christians here, but it certainly does not compare to what Muslims have done and are doing in the world as we speak. I'm really tired of people trying their best to spin all of this as if the Christian wars were anything like the Islamic wars.

"Do you know that the number of all killed people in all wars engaged by prophet Mohummad (PBUH) didn't exceeded 317 person?"

It's the horrid wars Muslims continued on since the day Islam was born up until today that is so bad, not just what Muhammad did in his short lifetime preaching to kill the nonbelievers. The words he left, certainly have caused the world much misery and heartache.

"I can't digest how do you accuse Islam of violance whether you christans are comitting horrific crimes against humanity and muslims not to state the lastly extermination of afghan and Iraqi people."

I really do not understand the above, but it is, indeed, Muslims who are killing Iraqis and the people of Afghanistan.

"Is this the Logic that your pope is denying to islamic culture ? Before talking of logic ; this pope should asked himself how did the Church oppressed the sholars of the western world ..thing that resulted in the total rejection of this corrupted faith that turns out to be an Archaic element of western civilization and constitues the mock of western secular intelligiencia."

Again, I am not sure I understand the above. Yes, there was a time that leaders took Christianity and used it as a power tool for themselves...that is until the people took their religion back and took it out of the hands of corrupt leaders forever.  The Muslim world is making the exact mistakes as Christians did years ago, letting people who want nothing but power incite hatred in their hearts and put them on the road to hatred and self-destruction. The thing is, Islam's already been all through this once. It is Muslims denying their true history that is causing them to repeat their mistakes over and over again, causing them weakness they will never overcome until they can face the truth about their history and what they have done so they can correct it. 

hello im muslim and i condemn the 9/11 attacks along bin laden and his comrades. My beloved prophet surely did not preach to kill any innocent people he fought because he was oppressed. He is the one who said not to burn any churches adn synagogues when we control and obtain a land, to not demolish a house GOD is praised in; and he who visited his jewish neighbor when he became ill after the jew was spending his days mocking at him. PLEASE DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ISLAM. go to cair.com where we have an organization defending us from any misconceptions. These people give us a hard time defending ourselves from all these wrong thoughts about us. I always try to say that i am against terrorism but i still find people saying "Prophet Mohammed preached to kill the nonbelievers... leaving the world much misery and heartache", he did not so dont i along with the TRUE muslims around the world, Our voice can be heard, again, at cair.com please see it. and i dont believe iraqis are blowing themselves up IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY KILLING THEIR FELLOW NEIGHBORS. this is illogical and immoral. they kill soldiers tho because of the pain they caused to them, whether it be seeing their relatives naked and being persecuted in the abu ghraib prison, or witnessing their daughter being raped and burned by a US soldier, or even being raided for being suspicious or for having "suspected ties to alqaeda". after these events u become enraged on a government supposedly "bringing peace to your country" or "giving them freedom" but instead  prove to be raiding a country without substantial evidence of weapons of mass destruction or ties to alqaeda which have been in the news recently. how do u expect them to react. the right way is not to burn churches or kidnap innocent people and kill them, as it is unfair, but what are they to do, they being taken over like they are prey for an imperialist nation (a nation extending its power over weaker nations for military bases or benefits out of the country i.e. oil).                                              I personally feel sad for them, what do u think? Are muslims causing the misery or are they experiencing it?  Salam(peace)

Jews don't believe Jesus is devine OR a prophet of God..... and they don't believe Muhammad is a prophet of God either.

Christians don't believe the Jews know what the heck their talking about and they don't believe Muhammad is the last prophet of God either.

Muslims believe in some of both Christian and Jewish religion.... and they believe in all the Christian and Jewish prophets..... so...... what's new?

I think that's what the pope might have been saying.

Islam isn't anything really "new" .... it's simply a canned presentation of the existing religions of faith in one God.

hindii: Actually Amgi the popes remarks should not surprise us much

AmGI: On this much I'm incline to agree with you. I'm not absolutely positive, but I think John Paul II was the only Pope to give recognition to Islam as being equal to Christianity and Judaism. Any one true to either of these faiths will not see Islam's God Allah, or his messenger Muhammad as the same or equal to their religion.
So as the leader of one of the largest sects of Christianity, the Pope wouldn't really agree with equality of Islam either.... I'd think.

hindii: it is known that the Jews and Christians are infidels,enemies of Allah,his Messenger,and the believers.

AmGI: I'd say war was waged against the people of the Jews and Christians by Muslims long before that favor was returned in kind.

hindii: They deny and curse Allah and his Messenger.

AmGI: Though Muslims accept Jesus as a "Prophet of God", they fall far short of accepting Christianity as a true faith. If they did, they wouldn't insult the Bible or the religion by slipping in unfounded claims of the Bible's corruption. If you want respect of you're religion, a good start might be respecting those religions that precede Islam by some 700 to 3000 years.

hindii: They deny even the messengers sent to them.

AmGI: Not sure I follow here what "messengers" you're speaking of? The only messenger seen as a false messenger (when attempts are made to equate Islam with the Jewish or Christian faiths) is Muhammad. Is that what you're refering too??

hindii: They do not believe in Moses,they do not believe in
Jesus because if they really believed in them,they would join Islam,because every prophet heralded to his nation the coming of the Prophet Muhammad and the need to believe in him.

AmGI: Why would Jews believe in Christianity?
If they did that, they'd be Christian's.
Why would Jews or Christians believe in Islam?
If we did that, we'd be Muslims.
Jews see no reason to disavow the truth the know to be true, nor do Christians.
Neither of these two religions "heralded" any prophet from the Arab world, nor did they herald a man called Muhammad as a prophet of their God.

Hope you got the message!

Oh for Pete's sake hindii, its really simple.

You want respect you've got to give it.

You want you're religion to be respected then you'd best stop calling other people's religions "corrupt" and "lies".

You deny Christ everytime you do that, thus you dishonor him.

"But ofcourse the main difference about you(christians)and us(muslims)is you will curse and insult our dear prophet Muhammed(PBUH)but we will never stoop low to curse your prophet Jesus or any other Prophet as we respect them and believe in them.Another thing you say about not knowing about Mohammed (PBUH)as being the last Messenger and the need to follow him is b'coz the present Bible is corrupted and changed and you and I and everybody is aware of it so just don't deny it simply for the sake of not wanting to agree with me."

no, hindii, christians do not "curse and insult" your "dear prophet".  i have never heard any christian say anything about him which is not written in the quran or ahadith.  also, to say you respect and believe in Jesus is a lie.  you only believe what muhammad said about him.  you call the Lord Jesus a liar by denying that he is the Son of God (he himself said so) and by denying that he would lay down his life for our salvation (he himself said so) and by denying that he would rise again from the dead (he himself said so).  you have no love for our glorious Lord.  so stop pretending.  we are not fooled.

you are only saying that the Bible is corrupted and changed because the quran flatly contradicts it

Here we go again.

The Bible is corrupt simply because it doesn't support the Muslim belief that Muhammad is a prophet of the Christian/Jewish God. (Didn't someone here tell me that Islam doesn't associate itself with us?)

As *Islaamic* always says....... Where's you're proofs?

"The west always blames our Mullahs for spreading hatred and keeps a close watch on our Madrassahs,now look their pope speaking badly about our dear Prophet(PBUH)who was a mercy for Mankind."

How could anyone not blame your Mullahs for spreading hatred with all of their hatre sermons, causing many Muslims to go on many rampages on many Fridays after their so-called prayers?  How could anyone not say your Mullahs are spreading hatred when we hear their hatred on your TV channels?  How could anyone not blame your Mullahs for spreading hatred when we have heard and seen what they are teaching Muslims in the east and were teaching some Muslims in the west before we kicked most of them out because of their preaching of hatred from day-one. Your people are eaten up with hatred in the east and this is what you should be, mainly, concerned about, not what the pope says or doesn't say.  Hatred has eaten them up from the inside-out and is causing their self-destruction, as hatred ALWAYS does, and this is what Muslims should be concerned about.

"Instead of building bridges he is widening the gap between the christians and muslims by his ignorance."

Show me the Muslim leaders that try to build bridges with Christians and all of the Muslims following them. In my opinion, the answer you will get will make you feel like a fool for typing the above.

"The Muslim world has not recovered from the cartoon contraversy yet and Bush various war on Muslim nations and here comes the Pope to rub salt on our wounds,a new campaign against islam now by the Vatican.What could be his motives behind this provacative statement?It clearly shows the pope harbors a lot of enmity for Islam."

Well, number one, they were not his statements.  He was quotting someone else when Muslims were very violent, trying to spread Islam by the sword in the then-known world.  Perhaps he was trying to tell Muslims that they are heading down that same road in today's world if they do not do something about it; only this time, there's no way they have the power to take any of the non-Muslim world. 

All we have heard from most Muslims since 9/11/01 is how horrible the Crusades were.  Many westerners have apologized for the Crusades, even though they were indeed defensive wars.  Of course, as usual, Muslims try to rewrite everyone else's history, just as they do their own.  Most people in the world have learned from the many mistakes their ancestors made and almost all have even apologized for those mistakes...all but Muslims. Muslims cannot learn from their history because they deny their true history and they will not apologize for what their ancestors did because, number one - they agree with what they did, and number two - they deny what they do. It's a mixture. I have seen where some brave Muslims have admitted Islam was spread by the sword. I'm not sure how any sane person could deny this fact.

If Muslims truly do not believe Islam is a violent religion, then they are setting themselves up to live in a very hate-filled world that will cause them more misery than anyone else in the world, and will lead them to nowhere but self-destruction.  Until the Muslims come out as they do about any western saying anything about Islam negative when terrorists degrade Islam more than anyone in the world if Muslims truly feel Islam is a peaceful religion, then more and more people in the world will believe that Islam is a very violent religion, with Muslims committing the very worst voilence this generation has ever witnessed.

Assalamualykum brothers and sisters / Hi All

I don't see anything wrong in what the Pope said. There are a few things that were misunderstood by Muslims:

1- The Pope said Jihad is wrong but he doesn't know the real meaning of the word Jihad. He used it as a synonym of "holy war" (all over Europe they think Jihad=war). They don't know the real meaning, i.e. "struggle for Allah" (even fasting is Jihad). The proof is that the pope used the words Jihad/Holy war in the same way. What the pope meant is: "fighting and killing people (holy war) that don't have the same belief that you have is WRONG and AGAINST GOD". He is right. We Muslims know that the concept of Holy war does not exist in Islam, as Allah (SWT) says in the Qu'ran "there is no compulsion in Islam".

We believe in Jihad, not in the holy war.

2- He exorted Muslims, Christians and Jews to live in harmony, with no wars. He is asking for tolerance. Again, what is wrong with this?

3- He accused WESTERNS (not Muslims!) saying they lost faith in God. He said westerns have to start practicing their faith again because technology progression (excuse my English,I'm not sure this is the proper word) made them forget about our Creator.

Again...what is wrong with all this? Why so many Muslims all over the world attacked him? I'm Muslim, alhamdulilah, but do we have to attack the pope/christians whatever they say? I don't agree.

Let's be reasonable. May Allah guide us to the right path.

Wassalamualykum

Bin Laden is not the representative face of Islam, nor is he the head of Muslims. Why should Muslims be required to "condemn" someone who is not even recognized as a Muslim leader?

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Read my blog at

http://www.petra-international.blogspot.com

And learn why the Pope said what he said!

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Praise be to Allah

Asslamu Alaykum DanielaAmina

I would like to remind you that speaking without knowledge in the matter of Islam and about Allah is prohibited! This is what Allah commanded in the Holy Quran (interpretation of the meaning): 

7:33. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "(But) the things that my Lord has indeed forbidden are Al­Fawahish (great evil sins, every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse, etc.) whether committed openly or secretly, sins (of all kinds), unrighteous oppression, joining partners (in worship) with Allah for which He has given no authority, and saying things about Allah of which you have no knowledge."

16:116. And say not concerning that which your tongues put forth falsely: "This is lawful and this is forbidden," so as to invent lies against Allah. Verily, those who invent lies against Allah will never prosper.

16:117. A passing brief enjoyment (will be theirs), but they will have a painful torment.

You have made many statements which are against Allah and His religion Al-Islam ! Lets go through them.

DanielaAmina: I don't see anything wrong in what the Pope said.

Sarkeranwar: This is because you think like him and you do not judge by that which Allah has revealed. You judge by your desire but not by the Quran and Sunnah!

DanielaAmina: There are a few things that were misunderstood by Muslims:

Sarkeranwar: Muslims did not misunderstand. It is you who misunderstood! Let me go through your post point by point

DanielaAmina: 1- The Pope said Jihad is wrong but he doesn't know the real meaning of the word Jihad. He used it as a synonym of "holy war" (all over Europe they think Jihad=war). They don't know the real meaning, i.e. "struggle for Allah" (even fasting is Jihad). The proof is that the pope used the words Jihad/Holy war in the same way…..

Sarkeranwar: The reason this guy says Jihad is violence and wrong (I am referring to his comment – see IOL article) is because he is a kaafir and kaafirs are always against that which Allah has ordained in Islam. And you do not know the real meaning of Jihad either. I think you just read some ignorant / hypocrites people whose understanding of Islam is no better than yours. Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s cause (i.e. for His religion Al-Islam)!  And this fighting is ordained for all the muslims by Allah Himself. Allah says in the Holy Quran (interpretation of the meaning):

2:216. Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. All h knows but you do not know.

9:36. "And fight against the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) collectively as they fight against you collectively. But know that Allah is with those who are Al-Muttaqun (the pious).''

9:41."March forth, whether you are light (being healthy, young and wealthy) or heavy (being ill, old and poor), and strive hard with your wealth and your lives in the Cause of Allah''.

This Jihad which Allah tells us is about physical fighting in His Cause where people kill and get killed. It is not the same as fasting in Ramadan for example! This is the same Jihad which were waged by our Prophet (peace be upon him) against the kuffar who hinder the propagation of Islam. It is the same Jihad through which Arabia and places like Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Turkey, Spain etc. were conquered and spread Islam!  You should read Ahadith and Islamic history before you speak on the issue of Jihad! 

DanielaAmina:.. What the pope meant is: "fighting and killing people (holy war) that don't have the same belief that you have is WRONG and AGAINST GOD". He is right. We Muslims know that the concept of Holy war does not exist in Islam, as Allah (SWT) says in the Qu'ran "there is no compulsion in Islam".

Sarkeranwar: He is not right and you are wrong and you have spoken against Allah by saying that “he is right”. And you have lied against Allah by saying that concept of Holy war (fighting) does not exist in Islam. And please do not say “we muslims” because muslims do not assign ignorant and hypocrite people as their spokesman. I sincerely advise you not to speak about Islam without knowledge in the future.

It is Allah Who has ordained fighting in His Cause (Jihad) during which the believers kill others and are killed. Please read Allah’s statement. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

9-111."Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the Jannah. They fight in Allah's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed.

3:169. Think not of those as dead who are killed in the way of Allah. Nay, they are alive, with their Rubb, and they have provision.''

Now tell me DanielaAmina, how can the believers can kill others and get killed without a fight? Do you now see how much you are speaking against Allah and His religion?

Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) loved to fight again and again in Allah’s Cause (Jihad) so that he could get killed (martyred) again and again. Here is a hadith in this regard.

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "Allah guarantees that he who goes out to fight in His way believing in Him and affirming the truth of His Messenger, will either be admitted to Jannah or will be brought back to his home (safely) from where he has set out, with whatever reward or share of booty he may have gained. By Him in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, if a person is wounded in the way of Allah, he will come on the Day of Resurrection with his wound in the same condition as it was on the day when he received it; its colour will be the colour of blood but its smell will be the smell of musk. By Him in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, if it were not to be too hard upon the Muslims, I would not lag behind any expedition to fight in the Cause of Allah, but I have neither abundant means to provide them conveyance (horses) nor all other Muslims have it, and it will be hard on them to remain behind when I go forth (for Jihad). By Him in Whose Hand Muhammad's soul is, I love to fight in the way of Allah and get killed, to fight again and get killed and to fight again and get killed.'' [Muslim].

Your understanding of Verse 2:256 [‘No compulsion] is not correct. You should not give fatwa based on just one Verse. You have to consider many other evidences from the Holy Quran and Sunnah before you reach to a decision. Read the following scholarly views on the issues of “no compulsion”. “Jihad” and means by which Islam was spread: 

Is there any compulsion in religion?

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=34770&ln=eng

The reason why jihaad is prescribed

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=34647&ln=eng

Was Islam spread by the sword?

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=43087&ln=eng

The above issues are based on the evidences from the Holy Quran and Sunnah. Therefore you must not oppose it if consider yourself a msulim!

DanielaAmina: 2- He exorted Muslims, Christians and Jews to live in harmony, with no wars. He is asking for tolerance. Again, what is wrong with this?

Sarkeranwar: First of all he is a kaafir. He has no business as to what muslim should do. Are you so comfortable to obey a kaafir? If so then you have gone against the Command of Allah! Allah forbade such thing. Allah says in the Holy Quran (interpretation of the meaning):

33:1. O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Keep your duty to Allah, and obey not the disbelievers and the hypocrites (i.e., do not follow their advices). Verily! Allah is Ever AllKnower, AllWise.

6:150. ..And you should not follow the vain desires of such as treat Our Ay t (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) as falsehoods, and such as believe not in the Hereafter, and they hold others as equal (in worship) with their Lord."

You must be a very blind person like him! If this ***** is asking to have no war then he should have spoken to his own people who are waging war against Islam, occupying muslim lands and killing muslims. How can you think like this blind kaafir?

And what is this nonsense of “living in harmony” I hear from the so called muslims now a days? Did Allah ask you to live in harmony with the kuffar Jews and Christians? Did our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) ask you to live in harmony with the kuffar Jews and Christians? Please bring evidence. If you cannot then who gave you such authority to propagate “live in harmony”? Did not Allah say in the Holy Quran that (interpretation of the meaning):

2:120. Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) till you follow their religion. Say: "Verily, the Guidance of Allah (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) that is the (only) Guidance. And if you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) were to follow their (Jews and Christians) desires after what you have received of Knowledge (i.e. the Quran), then you would have against Allah neither any Walee (protector or guardian) nor any helper.

Here is Allah Himself telling us that the Jews and Christians will never be pleased with us till we follow their religion then how can we live in harmony with them? Do you not see your mistake?

Moreover, how can we live in harmony with those who believe not in Allah and oppose that which Allah and His Messenger (peace & blessings of Allah be upon him) have ordained? Did not Allah inform us that the enmity and hatred will remain forever with those who associate partner(s) with Allah? Here is what Allah says in the Holy Quran (interpretation of the meaning):     

60:4. Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibrahim (Abraham) and those with him, when they said to their people: "Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allah, we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, hostility and hatred for ever, until you believe in Allah Alone………

So, how can you live in harmony when Allah tells us otherwise?

DanielaAmina: 3- He accused WESTERNS (not Muslims!) saying they lost faith in God. He said westerns have to start practicing their faith again because technology progression (excuse my English,I'm not sure this is the proper word) made them forget about our Creator.

Again...what is wrong with all this? Why so many Muslims all over the world attacked him? I'm Muslim, alhamdulilah, but do we have to attack the pope/christians whatever they say? I don't agree.

Let's be reasonable. May Allah guide us to the right path.

Sarkeranwar: We do not care what he tells his own people in regard to his own religion. But we care very much if he throws slanders on our beloved Prophet by quoting such thing as "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached," Benedict quoted Manuel II.

So this fool believes and is propagating these slanders against our Prophet (peace be upon him) and Allah’s religion. But there is nothing evil and inhuman in Allah’s religion where  Jihad (holy fighting in Allah’s Cause) has been made obligatory. Islam is the best thing for those who believe and understand!

The muslims are attacking him because he lied against and slandered our Prophet (peace be upon him). It is your misfortune that you feel no anger against his lies and slanders!  And you see nothing wrong with the enemies of Islam because you do not judge by Allah’s Quran and the Sunnah of His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). You judge by your whim and desire and such judging is evil in Islam.

I hope you will be cautious next time when you speak about Islam, Insha Allah. This is in order to save yourself from speaking against Allah (intentionally or out of ignorance) and refrain yourself from misleading others. May Allah protect us from such things.   

Assalamualykum,

Dear Sarkeranwar,

I wrote my point of view, not all Muslims' point of view.

You said  "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s cause (i.e. for His religion Al-Islam)!  And this fighting is ordained for all the muslims by Allah Himself. Allah says in the Holy Quran (interpretation of the meaning)...This Jihad which Allah tells us is about physical fighting in His Cause where people kill and get killed. It is not the same as fasting in Ramadan for example! This is the same Jihad which were waged by our Prophet (peace be upon him) against the kuffar who hinder the propagation of Islam. It is the same Jihad through which Arabia and places like Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Turkey, Spain etc. were conquered and spread Islam!  You should read Ahadith and Islamic history before you speak on the issue of Jihad!"

Well, first of all I read this interpretation of jihad in THIS website, I heard the imam of our mosque saying it and my husband (born muslim with good knowledge says the same). Plus, I don't see ANY of your statements that contradict what I said.

I know we HAVE to fight unbelievers IF (and ONLY IF) they fight us. This is a Jihad. But Jihad is not only fighting. Every struggling for Allah's cause IS Jihad.

You said: "Now tell me DanielaAmina, how can the believers can kill others and get killed without a fight? Do you now see how much you are speaking against Allah and His religion?"

WHY should believers kill innocents? Again, I am NOT talking about believers that are oppressed and attacked as these ones HAVE to react. But it's now clear to me you justify ANY killing of unbelievers WHICH IS WRONG AND AGAINST ISLAM.

multisync

You my friend are misinformed. Islam was label as the religion of the sword during the crusades. The invading European came in contact with people who were Muslim. These Muslims were fighting against the invading army (the crusaders). The crusaders to dehumanize their opposition started spreading negatives images. Now you might believe that what the Pope said was a historical fact but remember whose history are you reading? Are you reading something that was written unbiased?

Chronologicaly you re right.

Let me just add some clarifications.

 The battle of the first time of ISLAM, from 623 to  638 - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem, were all defensive battle; and as proof most of them were fought around Mecaa, Medina, but at any rate were fought within the arabic peninsula and where launched by non Muslim against muslim.You wrote that in : 624 - Muhammad and converts begin raids `on caravans to fund the movement; like the first muslims were gangsters. ISLAM beginning has never used coercision to grow up, and there s no such attack on caravan by muslims, unless their own caravans were attacked by Qoreich. It was a retaliation act , check the Abu Sofian history to find out.

From 638 to 777 at the time Tarik Ibn Zyad (Gibraltar rock was named after him) muslims crossed the mediterranean sea. You have to remind to the people that since 638 muslims were mostly called by christians who were just robbed by the christians clergy. The christians, you didnot mention it, never converted to ISLAM, just because ISLAM forbids to push people to believe under corcision. And by the way, Spain did not exist as it is now, the Wisigoth never formed a orgonized nation but were a conglomerat of many tribe whose only link to  christianity was to collect taxes.....

You should ask why arab christian (Maronite, Assyrian, ....) never fought against arab muslims. Because the islamic rules were prefered than the christian clergy.

I told you that chronologicaly you were right, but except that, all what you pointed out was wrong.

You did not mention something very important.

The prophet told us about the conquest of Bysance(Constantinia) , but HE told us also about the conquest of Rome..............

To be continued.

The fact that you keep assuming that Muslims enslaved non Muslim and particularly christians, reveals just one thing: your absolute ignorance of the subject.

You are wrong again, because you re looking at the subject with a pre established hatred. All the batlle look for you as having been generated by muslim, where most of the scholar wrote about the subject that it wasmostly a conflict of empire. Try to read the french scholar Lombar on his History of Islam, I do not have enough time to educate your ignorance.....

I am continuing my Post about the prophecy of Mohamed (Alehi afdal salat wa ataibu tasleema).

Yes He told us about the fall of the Sassanides (Persian empire) also about the fall of Constantinia (Constantinople) which was the capital of christianity.

Finally, He told us 14th century ago that Rome will become muslim, but without fighting............just peacefully.

Yes, Lets assume that Muslims Invaded all the parts of the world. Lets also assume that they did it by war and killing.

Lets take one of the oldest civilization in the world. Indus valley.... Now we call it India.....

some years back, I don’t remember my school history well, but let not forget the fact that the invading and converting, Mugals (Muslim Rulers), they ruled India for so many years(around 400 to 500 years) but still can you believe that the % of Muslims in India is not more than 10 %(Even I take Pakistan and Bangladesh in to account it may increase to 20%)

Now lets go back to the old Dark age in Europe.... like the Muslims ruling India the good Christians where ruling this part... how many people were killed in the name of religion and force fully converted

And everybody knows that Islam does not differentiate between races

And still in Europe and the so called you know the human loving and caring people never allowed(Still don’t ) the colored people to have a cup of tea in the same Deli......

I guess you should not be dirtying any religion just by reading some history....

Can give you a simple example...

1857 The Sipoy mutiny in India is called as a terrorist act by the British Empire... (Since the British created the history it is still called mutiny)

But Indians know it as a freedom struggle.....

So just by giving some battle names does not mean that Muslims went in and killed everybody.... Battle is also an act of survival........

People say that in Muslim world every mullah say bad things about other religion.... But you have to understand one thing one mullah does not represent the whole Muslim community....

 But one POPE does......

A leader's word should be diplomatic...  May be pope did in the right sense... But he should not be making statements which could be possibly be misunderstood...

alladin,

It's true that Muslims code of war in the early years of Islam was for the most part, honorable.

Most notable in compassion was Saladin... the conquer of Jerusalem.

He sought no reprisals against the Christians and let them leave the city peacefully if they chose to do so.

Many Muslim leaders were very upset with him for that.

At any rate, whether the armies of Islam took a city by coercion or storm, take them they did.

True, many of these cities could be seen as being "liberated" from tyrannical rulers, and that Islam brought order and peace.
But they did it out of the zeal of religious duty and in the end, these cities were conquered by Islam.

Just because you might take some cities peacefully, doesn't mean they weren't taken.

Whatever authority once ruled, Islam raised it's banner and treaded to the very doorsteps of Christendom.

This is what provoked the Crusades.

Yes He told us about the fall of the Sassanides (Persian empire) also about the fall of Constantinia (Constantinople) which was the capital of christianity.

While Catholics are considered Christian because they believe in Christ, not all Christians are Catholic.  It might even be true that the majority of Christians are not Catholics... they are not majority in the USA.

The Capitol of Christianity is not Constantinople or Rome.  It is however, the capitol of the Catholic religion.

Regards