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Thread: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
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Replies:
12
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Last Post:
Nov 29, 2009 4:37 PM
by: Lateefah84
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Posts:
1
Registered:
11/5/09
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Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 5, 2009 5:02 AM
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We all know that on the coming 29th of November the Swiss people are to vote on the initiative to ban the construction of minarets in Switzerland, which if applied will be added to the Swiss constitution. But the question to be asked is: Are minarets that important for Muslims in Europe? What problem can that architectural part of a building do? What motives lie behind this initiative (political, religious, cultural)?
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Posts:
55
Registered:
11/8/09
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Re: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 8, 2009 3:00 PM
in response to:
European_Muslims
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Historical.
When the Norman French conquered Britain, they stamped their authority by building massive castles and cathedrals. To some people, adding minarets to the skyline is the same.
When the rich mill owners in Lancashire wanted to display their wealth, they built Churches and had people watch to make sure that all their employees attended. They were quite happy to see 6 year old children working 14 hour days, under the moving weaving machines, collecting cotton scraps, but they also wanted to make sure their souls were cared for while their bodies were being broken.
A large Mosque, to many people in Europe is as alien and oppressive as the Norman Cathedral.
Mind you, the imposition of a Western Democracy on a Country that has had a Tribal Democracy for more than a thousand years is criminal. Far worse than building a minaret or a Cathedral. But remember...
Afghanistan has been the rock that many an empire has crashed upon and wished it hadn't. I believe that left to its own resources, when the Afghan people got tired of the Taliban, they'd have sent it packing.
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Posts:
55
Registered:
11/8/09
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Re: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 8, 2009 4:21 PM
in response to:
Dogman
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Sorry. I wanted to elaborate.
Many European countries have lived under Theocracies. States run by Churches or religions.
In Britain, we have lived under Roman Catholic rule, which wiped out our own various religions. We then lived under the rule of Henry VIII who persecuted Roman Catholics. Following Henry VIII was Mary Tudor who killed Protestants, followed by Elizabeth Tudor who killed Roman Catholics. Then we had James I who fined Catholics, but tolerated them and then Charles I who tried to impose a prayer book and his way of worship on both the English and the Scottish. The Scottish then were ruled by the Presbyterians who tried to get Scotland and England to comply with their kind of worship. They were beaten by Oliver Cromwell at Dunbar in Scotland who had fought for religious freedom in England, resulting in the beheading of Charles I.
At the same time, Britain was at war with either Spain or France, or both.
France was ruled by a King, controlled by a Roman Catholic Cardinal. Spain was ruled by a King, but under the thumb of the Church. Spain was also under the Inquisition. People were being killed for questioning religious authority.
Bear in mind the fact that Jesus never said "Go out and kill people who doubt, or question your authority.". In fact, he never said "Go out and kill people." at all.
To be given Faith, is to be given a blessing. Surely, people who have no faith are more to be pitied than punished?
Please understand that even white Europeans have lived under oppressive regimes.
Charles I had an Archbishop called Laud. He had people branded with red hot irons and their ears cut off for questioning his rule. He turned the church into his own secret service and presided over the Star Chamber, totally over ruling the laws of the land. This give us, the British a genuine fear of Theocracies. Many Islamic States are Theocracies and the Mosque and Minaret are symbols of that Theocracy
We have seen what happens when 'Holy Men' twist and turn the Bible to enrich themselves and enforce their wishes.
We're not totally daft though. We see the millionaire American Evangelists and the multi millionaire Blair.
If you dare to see us more clearly, Google Secret People, by G K Chesterton.
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Posts:
2
Registered:
11/9/09
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Re: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 9, 2009 1:10 PM
in response to:
European_Muslims
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The registered association IG Stiller has just released a poster, which stresses the point that all religions (Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc.) have to heed the night's rest.
This holds for church bells as well as for the muezzin.
See here:
http://www.nachtruhe.info/news/ig-stiller-plakat-nachtruhe.xhtml
(The main text says:
Night's rest holds for everybody
Many Swiss are afraid, that with the Minarett the Muezzin will come, start singing at 5 in the morning - hence adding to the constant noise of church bell ringing:
http://www.kirchenglocken.ch/church-bell-noise-switzerland/
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Posts:
1,291
From:
Muslim live in Egypt
Registered:
11/8/07
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Re: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 9, 2009 4:25 PM
in response to:
starglider
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Many Swiss are afraid, that with the Minarett the Muezzin will come, start singing at 5 in the morning - hence adding to the constant noise of church bell ringing:
No, the 'azan' or call for prayers will be inside the mosque only and not outside.
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Posts:
55
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11/8/09
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Re: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 10, 2009 6:40 AM
in response to:
Maryam95
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There is no constant church bell ringing in Switzerland. In fact, most European countries would not allow such things.
In the 16th Century, one of the most enlightened places in the World was the Persia of Shah Abbas! A place where people could discuss things that they would be killed for, in their own 'Christian' Countries. Shah Abbas was also someone who believed that the Jews should have a homeland in the Middle East.
In the 17th Century, Geneva was the place where people could meet to discuss the same sort of things. It was a place of enlightenment.
Today, if we dare to take the chance, we have the Internet. Not to attack each other, but to find common ground.
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Posts:
2
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11/9/09
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Re: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 11, 2009 1:52 AM
in response to:
Dogman
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Unfortunately that's wrong, in most villages in Switzerland there is CONSTANT bell-ringing. Meaning, every 15 minutes, the so-called 'Zeitschlag'. 24 hours a day. Day and night.
This happens also in Germany and Austria. In other countries like Holland or England, it's not that bad.
And to make matters worse, there is constant cowbell ringing as well:
http://www.kirchenglocken.ch/church-bell-cowbells-noise-switzerland/
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Posts:
1,291
From:
Muslim live in Egypt
Registered:
11/8/07
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Re: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 11, 2009 1:47 PM
in response to:
starglider
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Do they ring the bells all the time 365 days or in certain days? and why every 15 minutes? and why 24 hours a day? As for the call for prayer 'azan', it is 5 times a day as you know. In Muslim countries they call for azan in mosques through speakers and the azan takes one minute. In non Muslim countries the call is inside the mosque only.
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Posts:
55
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11/8/09
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Re: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 11, 2009 3:17 PM
in response to:
Maryam95
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I hope you will like this. It's funny!
We were sold a holiday in Turkey and the Travel agent told us the place we were going was 'Nice and quiet'.
Well... The disco (we were trying to sleep above) finally went quiet at 3.00AM and we just got to sleep when the call to prayer started. We finally managed to pay more money and move to a quiet hotel, and, to tell the truth, the call to prayer was far better on the ears than the disco.
You're right about the bells, I forgot about the clocks. If you live in a village with a church clock, you actually forget it's there. Switzerland is a land built on clocks, but if they're set right, they should all go off at once!
I needed noisy clocks yesterday. I slept for 16 hours, non stop. Getting old.
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Posts:
799
Registered:
4/29/09
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Re: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 20, 2009 2:53 PM
in response to:
Maryam95
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The church in the village here also rings its bells every half hour. It doesn't have any religious meaning though. It's just a signal saying that half an hour has passed. It ain't used between 0:00 and 5:30 at night. I wouldn't notice it if it did though... When inside, you can actually only here it if you live in front of it in an old house.
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Posts:
16
Registered:
11/20/09
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Re: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 21, 2009 8:13 AM
in response to:
European_Muslims
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Minaret today only has symbolic significance. No one calling for prayer from it.
Whatever bitter historical encounter the Swiss has experienced in the past it seem far fetch to connect it with this one.
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Posts:
55
Registered:
11/8/09
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Re: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 21, 2009 2:05 PM
in response to:
GDAQ
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Every nation has a long history. If you fail to respect that, you fail.
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Posts:
1
Registered:
11/29/09
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Re: Minarets in Europe: A Matter of Life & Death?!!!
Posted:
Nov 29, 2009 4:37 PM
in response to:
Dogman
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Minarets also has a long history in muslim nation. And everyone fails to respect that...
Message was edited by:
Lateefah84
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