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Thread: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
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Replies:
129
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Last Post:
Nov 2, 2006 12:46 PM
by: songyang
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Posts:
64
Registered:
7/14/06
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And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Jul 22, 2006 6:14 AM
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Arab and Muslim… yes there are my nationality and religion, which bit by bit turn to be my fault in this life. Terrorist and extremist… no I am not this and that, however many think they are my main features and basic trends. I am one of an extended community keeps looking at a policy whose owner persuades us it is the best to be imposed, the best that helps "us" and "them" reach peace. Actually, this policy does nothing but deeps down the obstacles in our reconciliation road. And as a result, a silent rage, which knows no stop, is spreading among us like a plague; pushing us to cry , scream, even dare to destroy such a policy. It is gone with wind , Mr. President; your policy for reforming the Mid East ends to no fruitful gain but more violence, hatred and terrorism. And we still ask: " Why do they hate us?!"
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914
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Jul 22, 2006 10:40 AM
in response to:
Roshy
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Hate and rage can be good if they are channeled properly. As long as we are militarily weaker than our adversaries, this onslaught, this murder will continue. Become one "bunyanam masoos". Don't let differences divide us. Force our elites to give up enjoying the sensual pleasures of life. Make them invest in the human and mineral potential. Make our leaders buy technology, not the finished products. Since most of the leadership is stooge of one Power or the other, we need revolutions.
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793
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6/22/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Jul 22, 2006 10:55 AM
in response to:
PD
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I agree fully.... There is only one thing the u.s. and Israel understand and that is some country is capable of inflicting serious damage in return. What a bully boy that Israel has become, exactly like bush. Huh, Israel is now DEMANDING the Lebanese all leave there homes in some parts of Lebanon. To go where? The roads are all bombed out, anyway Israel is bombing and firing on cars, red cross vehicles and ambulances. A sea blockade, as well as no airport. The only ones able to leave by sea is tourists and people from other countries that have dual citizenship. All the while the u.s. Bush and Rice is giving the Israelis all the time they want to destroy Lebanon and kill Lebanon people. Then the u.s. and Israel ask..why do they hate us? Omg, anyone with half a brain knows why. I think they need a few good German troops in Lebanon ..like the SS, straighten the jews right out.
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Registered:
6/22/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 28, 2006 8:27 PM
in response to:
usedtowels_4_sale
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Who are you to cherry pick each of your clearly anti-Muslim point and arrogantly and rhetorically say, "I agree with that one...You hear about the Yazidi in Iraq? They seem plausible?"
Your an ill temperate Islamophobe and your disrespectful posts about how supreme your cocky beliefs are, are your own!
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93
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1/21/04
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Jul 22, 2006 6:05 PM
in response to:
Roshy
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"You know my friends, there comes a time when people get tired of being trampled over by the iron feet of oppression." Dr. Martin Luther King. Hezbollah is only a manifestation of the disease, which Western Governments (i.e. US, GB and France) have infected the region in general and the Palestinians in particular. Let us not forget that the Israelis were engaged in a campaign to eradicate Hammas in Gaza long before this recent escalation with Hezbollah. In spite of all their advances in science and technology Western powers refuse to accept one of the immutable laws of nature: “FOR EVERY ACTION THERE IS AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE REACTION”. Both sides claim the right to ‘self defense’; both sides claim to be the victims. The Israelis accuse the stateless Palestinians of being terrorists, while the Palestinians accuse the Israelis of being a terrorist state. I believe that there are only two options for the Palestinians and the Israelis, War or Peace. It is clear that war is not the solution because the past 60 years of fighting has only resulted in more death and destruction. It is time for a paradigm shift in our approach to conflict resolution. It is time for men and women of courage to stand up to the agents of death and refuse to engage the wanton slaughter of any of God’s children, because at the end of the day we all belong to the same race; the human race.
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2,617
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6/4/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Jul 22, 2006 7:30 PM
in response to:
Roshy
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As an embarrassed american, 'they' do not hate you. 'They' hate your people's resistance to u.s. domination. As demonstrated , u.s. society is as depraved and degenerate as their military. Again, 'they' hate your resistance to their persistent global domination
Arab and Muslim… yes there are my nationality and religion, which bit by bit turn to be my fault in this life. Terrorist and extremist… no I am not this and that, however many think they are my main features and basic trends. I am one of an extended community keeps looking at a policy whose owner persuades us it is the best to be imposed, the best that helps "us" and "them" reach peace. Actually, this policy does nothing but deeps down the obstacles in our reconciliation road. And as a result, a silent rage, which knows no stop, is spreading among us like a plague; pushing us to cry , scream, even dare to destroy such a policy. It is gone with wind , Mr. President; your policy for reforming the Mid East ends to no fruitful gain but more violence, hatred and terrorism. And we still ask: " Why do they hate us?!"
Arab and Muslim… yes there are my nationality and religion, which bit by bit turn to be my fault in this life. Terrorist and extremist… no I am not this and that, however many think they are my main features and basic trends. I am one of an extended community keeps looking at a policy whose owner persuades us it is the best to be imposed, the best that helps "us" and "them" reach peace. Actually, this policy does nothing but deeps down the obstacles in our reconciliation road. And as a result, a silent rage, which knows no stop, is spreading among us like a plague; pushing us to cry , scream, even dare to destroy such a policy. It is gone with wind , Mr. President; your policy for reforming the Mid East ends to no fruitful gain but more violence, hatred and terrorism. And we still ask: " Why do they hate us?!" nation. The americans have used the most barbaric manipualation tactics---the planet has ever known.
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30
From:
throughout the virtual world
Registered:
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Jul 25, 2006 12:38 AM
in response to:
Bennite
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Another reason to be hated has surfaced. Ms rice announces that hizbullah is to blame for the war.This, after being told to take her defective offer and adjust it to show a neutral stance from the US.Now she fuels the fire with making a public comment on zionist media. Have fun ms rice.you have to meet your maker.
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7/5/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Jul 26, 2006 3:09 PM
in response to:
av
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"Another reason to be hated has surfaced. Ms rice announces that hizbullah is to blame for the war". Ms Rice is just plain silly. She should know better. Whoever started this, the Jews are ALWAYS to be blamed for everything.
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13
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7/24/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Jul 30, 2006 8:30 PM
in response to:
shlemazl
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Why do they hate us ? see: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14225.htm
Because the Bush Regime is the world's biggest terrorist organization. A terrorist organization is one which uses violence to achieve political ends.
HERE IS A PICTURE OF "THEY". Now take a guess why they hate us.
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14
Registered:
6/22/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 28, 2006 8:34 PM
in response to:
CrusaderRabbit
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Yup the Jewish fascists along with their Israeli loyalty have usurped American foreign policy to do its bidding.
It's really upsetting to see my government donating billions of weaponry to a terrorist state while American citizens are being butchered while they vacationed in Lebanon.
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Posts:
74
From:
Canada
Registered:
9/7/05
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 7, 2006 12:13 AM
in response to:
Roshy
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Roshy wrote: "...Mr. President; your policy for reforming the Mid East..." and herein lay the main problem.
The pomposity of the madmen in Washington - and the average American citizen don't forget - that it is "They" that have the right to dictate to people in other parts of the world how those people should live their lives, utilize their own resources, follow their cultural norms...this is the main problem, and all stems from this psychotic self-delusion.
As for Israel, for that the British and French share blame because it was they that forced slavery on the people that had been living and in ownership of the land for centuries just so that the British and French would not have to set up a "State of Israel" just north of Brighton or to the West Le Havre.
The British and French had NO right to steal the land whereon the Palestinians had "ruled" for centuries, NONE, and to now today say that the problem is because those who have been enslaved for decades want what is rightfully theirs, back again, is specious in the least and pure evil in reality.
The reason "They" hate is as others have noted, only because the Arabs and Persians dare to resist, dare to refuse to genuflect towards the madmen in Washington, dare to refuse to accept the self-granted right of the madmen in Washington and their mongrels in some other countries to be the dictators of the world, to demand that people in disparate countries blindly accept their - America's - failed and yet incredibly corrupt political system, to demand that other nations immediately accept slavery and control by a foreign dictator, to try and live their own lives in their own way and with their own cultural norms...and of course to control their own resources and wealth.
BUT...there is another problem that seriously exacerbates the above - and that relates to those Arabs and Persians that DO obey, that DO genuflect, that WILL accept slavery for money, that HAVE willingly given up of their resources for money.
When there are those amongst the Arabs and Persians that willingly accept that they are lesser and willingly genuflect towards the madmen in Washington and willingly deny their own cultural heritage...then it emboldens the madmen and those that follow the madmen in Washington because it allows those madmen and their followers to pontificate by saying "See, why are you against us when these of your brethren side with us...for money? Can't you see that the best thing to do is simply accept our control over you? Can't you simply accept that as long as you do what we order you to do you can stop dying and live as pampered pets at our feet?"
Those are the reasons "They" hate Arabs and Persians alike that will not freely submit...the madmen in Washington, their mongrels and their followers, and the average American citizen all feel that it is THEIR right to control, to rule, to demand obedience and if any attempt to deny THEIR self-granted right to rule they shall be ostracized, demonized, hated and murdered.
So, Arabs and Persians - and by extension, Cubans, and Nigerians, and Columbians, and Venezualans, and Peruvians, and Panamanians, and North Koreans, and Indonesians, and Malaysians, and Chinese have what are essentially two choices: submit to slavery or find a way to fight.
Too bad so many Arabs and Persians fall into the category of being willing to be enslaved just so they can enjoy a few bucks.
Good for small countries like Cuba who has a leader like Castro who has fought many American madmen in Washington and whose people have resisted and still resist the attempts of the madmen in Washington to dictate to that tiny country.
Until Arabs and Persians stand together, until those willing to be slaves are awakened to the evil they do by seeking to lay at the feet of the enemy, there will never be anything for Arabs and Persians but slavery imposed or slavery becoming.
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24
Registered:
10/31/05
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 22, 2006 1:10 PM
in response to:
canchin
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The French and Brits had a right to do whatever they chose to do. They won the war. The west was in charge once again. When the Arab Muslims conquered much of Europe/Christian/Hindu, etc., land years ago, they did not even give a choice for those people to control their countries. They were controlled by the Arab Muslims themselves after conquering them. The west were at least nice enough to let the Arab Muslims have their own countries. They didn't have to do that and the Arab Muslims certainly did not do that years ago. And if the Arab Muslims were to ever conquer other countries again, there's no way they would ever let anyone run their own countries. The entire world would be under Arab Muslims' and ruled by Islam. So, in other words, Arab Muslims should be very grateful they were allowed to have their own countries.
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6/22/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 28, 2006 8:50 PM
in response to:
Schuppert
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That's why the Hindu in INdia, Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians all prospered under "Arab/Muslim" (many Arab were Christians) control?
The Jews had their golden age in Muslims caliphate Spain in Andalusia.
The Hindus had their golden age in the 16th Century under Mughal rule.
Were there exceptions? Of course, there were cases of violence as there are 1,000 homicides each year of the innocent in NYC but history attests to the fact that those MUSLIM rulers who ruled by the Islamic virtues were the most upright and chivalrous men of their day. To the point that many non-Muslims preferred the rule of Muslims over that of their own as can be seen by the Christians in Jerusalem who gave the keys to the holiest shrine in Christendom in the protection and guardianship of Muslims. Till this day that's the case.
>>And if the Arab Muslims were to ever conquer other countries again, there's no way they would ever let anyone run their own countries.
Were to? I don't see the Arabs/Muslims conquering any land. Way to turn the argument backwards.
If I'm not mistaken it was the European colonialists who butchered, plundered, and colonized Arab/Muslim lands and drained them of all their wealth so that their "Empire" could flourish.
Now instead of a European power, we see the same colonialist mentality in the form of the neocons in the United States plunering Arab-Persian-Muslim countries rich in oil to spread "democracy."
We all know if Iraq was cursed to have no oil, the Middle East would be another desert unbeknown to the racist adventures of "democracy." Because if democracy was the true goal, WHY HASN'T ONE single African nation been plundered and invaded to spread God-given 'liberty?'
Enough lies and deception already. American forces are being killed daily and that's the price they'll continue to pay if ordinary Americans are misled into more wars with Muslim countries again like Iran and Syria.
Message was edited by: andy_f90
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10/2/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Oct 2, 2006 9:46 PM
in response to:
andy_f90
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Before you read this,let me say I am not a supporter of Israel or of The USA being the policeman of the world.Tell me where I am wrong in this post.Since Sept.11,2001 I have tried to understand the motivations and beliefs of devout Muslims. I have researched their beliefs about God and their scriptures for 5 years. I have finally made up my mind. Muslims do not have a belief system compatible with a secular society. There are millions worldwide who adhere to fundamentalist Islamic doctrines which sanction murder of innocents (infidels or unbelievers).The rest of Islam either agrees philosophically but wouldn’t go as far personally as to commit suicide. Or they are afraid to speak up and offend their fellow Muslims. If Islam was a peaceful religion, every time Muslims were involved in the heinous crimes they are commiting,Islamic teachers worldwide would vehemently denounce it in the media ,and Muslims would protest in the street because their peaceful religion had been insulted and violated far worse than a cartoon in a newspaper. There is only silence. Can the west survive? I don’t think it can. We can extend our existence as a democratic nation by passing laws prohibiting religions that advocate violence towards (infidels, unbelievers).We can deport existing Muslims and illegal immigrants, and seal our borders. This will only help until a fundamentalist Muslim gains access to a nuclear weapon. Then the threats and blackmail will begin and the west will have to comply. Devout Muslims believe it is a privilege and God will greatly reward them if they die fighting in his service against infidels. If they murder one or millions with a nuclear device, God is pleased. They don’t fear retaliation because the people who die are victims of war and will go to paradise . The leaders of the west don’t have a belief system that would allow them to kill all the Muslims in the world or enough to allow western civilization to continue. There are coming very difficult and trying times in this world, we will be forced to our knees and become a Islamic nation or we will destroy a large part of humanity. As much as I detest Bush and Co. they are right about Iran. No Islamic country, including India and Pakistan should ever be allowed nuclear technology. Now is the time to act, with or without the UN or the rest of the world. Better to kill hundreds of thousands now than millions or possibly billions later. The west should deport all Muslims to the Middle East and contain them there until their religion matures and becomes nonviolent.
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 7, 2006 2:21 AM
in response to:
Roshy
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Who said "Why do they hate us?" Oh I'm sure there are some naive American's that don't understand the plan of Islam, and it's followers known as Muslims. They don't realize that this group is invested in taking over the world by any means necessary, to include terrorism and subversion. But since 9/11, America has awaken to the threat Islam poses. As with all threats America has faced in the past, this one will face the same fate as all the others.... DEFEAT!
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 7, 2006 9:03 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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How can they not hate us? They simply fear us. Any democratic nation in this world fears mulims and their dictatorships. (BTW Lebanon is rulled by Hezbollah in the south part so it is like a dictatorship) 200 Rockets per day are shot into Israel from Lebanon - how could they not fear and thus hate us. Ever hear of the saying "a good defence is a strong offence" that is unfortunately what Israel is doing to Lebanon, how else can they defend from these rockets. They have to take the offensive stance and clean up Hezbollah.
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6/22/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 28, 2006 8:55 PM
in response to:
Free_Thinker
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Mole alert! WATCH OUT FOR:
AMGI Free_Thinker usedtowels_4_sale Crusader rabbit
Anytime you read any one of their posts you know their Zionist slant.
Brothers/Sisters it's best to ignore these "moles" who are pro-Israeli and spreading their mischief. This is the microcosm of their ruination and Judaifascising America.
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2,617
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 28, 2006 9:36 PM
in response to:
andy_f90
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Please add "Bennitte,' imposter, u.s. propagandist, "Easyto fool."
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1,209
From:
Allah we came and to Allah we will return
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 22, 2006 7:52 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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Cheap propaganda. Lies and Lies. That's all you know AMGi. It is the Zionist elite who is eyeing for the wealth of the whole world and they are using specifically America as their slaves and the general world population to be subservient to them. And since 911, the world had woken up from their slumber and slowly recognise who the real terrorist in the world that is the axis of evil, UK, USA and Israel. TRUTH STANDS STRONG ETERNALLY AND LIES CRUMBLE EVENTUALLY
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 22, 2006 10:08 AM
in response to:
SZA
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You know SZA??? You're just like my pigs.... they sit there in the crowd of other pigs grunting and snorting until you start poking and proding them... then the SQEAL little they've just been shot! Just a little poke and SOOWEEEEEE!!! They scream and scream even when there's nothing to really scream about.
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 22, 2006 10:17 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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Frontline, your very presence in that region, is enough to turn anyone into an advisary. Remember, only 31% of u.s. population support your brand of terrorism. How does that make you feel? Useless--is the answer. So, get with it.
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Sep 21, 2006 9:57 AM
in response to:
SZA
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well put SZA .
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14
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6/22/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 28, 2006 8:57 PM
in response to:
AmGI
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AMGI,
Pigs! Now that's a subject your Zionofascist mind would clearly understand.
There is nothing these neocons cherish more than war, pigs, and pro-Israeli PR.
Keep up your stupidity for all of us to see.
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From:
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 22, 2006 10:46 AM
in response to:
SZA
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AMGI is a murderer, a liar, and a theive. He depends on the death of others to live just like Bush and his co-robbers. This is why he had to stay in here and constantly lie in his propagand campaigns to further Bush robber operation in Iraq, and help the theives in Israel kill Lebonese and Palestinian people.
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 23, 2006 8:25 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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I agree with you, I watch a lot of news from USA, and the sad thing is just as the country was divided during the Civil War, so are the American people today, by hearing a few words of peace, and seeing a few propaganda photo's many know it all and bury their heads in the sand, refusing or not seeking out the truth as to the True aims of this danger surrounding them
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 23, 2006 10:35 AM
in response to:
chas
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Don't worry Chas, *** like Osama will do something stupid to unite American's like never before. More than likely something along the lines of a suitcase nuke. I can't remember that Tom Clancy movie where the bad guys plant one in a coke machine at a Pro football game. Something like that though. Everyone forgets that a true Muslim cannot be subservient to non-Muslims. They forget that Muslims cherish death over life. They forget that the enemy sleeps among us. When things like the terrorist cell in England are uncovered and people find out these are 2nd generation Muslims that were born in England yet brainwashed by Islam.... stand by. Already I've read several article where Europe is moving to block Muslim immigrants and send illegal ones home to whatever area they came from.
[Edited by: moderator on Aug 23, 2006 11:00 AM]
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 8, 2006 2:52 AM
in response to:
Roshy
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Neturei Karta opposed the establishment of and retain all opposition to the existence of the so-called "State of Israel"! Neturei-Karta is the Aramaic term for "Guardians of the City. The name Neturei-Karta originates from an incident in which R. Yehudah Ha-Nassi (Rabbi Judah the Prince) sent R. Hiyya and R. Ashi on a pastoral tour of inspection. In one town they asked to see the "guardians of the city" and the city guard was paraded before them. They said that these were not the guardians of the city but its destroyers, which prompted the citizens to ask who, then, could be considered the guardians. The rabbis answered, "The scribes and the scholars," referring them to Tehillim (Psalms) Chap. 127. (Jerusalem Talmud, Tractate Hagiga. 76c). The name was given to a group of Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem who refused (and still refuse) to recognize the existence or authority of the so-called "State of Israel" and made (and still make) a point of publicly demonstrating their position, the position of the Torah and authentic unadulterated Judaism. The group was founded in Jerusalem, Palestine in 1938, splitting off from Agudas Yisroel. Agudas Yisroel was established in 1912 for the purpose of fighting Zionism. Gradually lured by money and honor they sold out to the "Golden-Calf" (see Exodus, XXXII) of Zionism. Those who wanted to maintain their faith and continue the struggle against Zionism, dissociated themselves from Agudas Yisroel and associated parties. Over the years, a number of Neturei Karta activists and followers settled outside of Palestine. Some of the reasons that these individuals abandoned the country in which they and their families had lived for many generations (having lived there many years prior to the establishment of the illegitimate so-called "State of Israel") include; ideological refusal to live under the illegitimate heretical "Israeli" regime, them being exiled by the Zionist government for their insistence of remaining independent of the illegitimate heretical regime or them being unable to live a normal family life due to them and their families being persistently harassed, repeatedly incarcerated and many times even physically tortured by the Zionist police and agents. This dispersion resulted in the emergence of various Neturei Karta establishments on the broader international scene. These establishments include synagogues, educational institutions, publishing houses and organizations. The establishments in New York include three synagogues in Brooklyn (Boro Park and Williamsburg), three upstate, and organizations include the Friends of Jerusalem in NY, NY. Neturei Karta is not - as is often alleged - a small sect or an extremist group of "ultra-orthodox" Jews. The Neturei Karta have added nothing to nor have they taken anything away from the written and oral law of the Torah as it is expressed in the Halacha and the Shulchan Aruch. The Neturei Karta are fighting the changes and inroads made by political Zionism during the past one-hundred odd years. Guided by the rabbis of our time and under the inspiring leadership of the late Reb Amram Blau, the Neturei Karta refuse to recognize the right of anyone to establish a "Jewish" state during the present period of exile. There are those who wish to play down the Neturei Karta and its' Torah-true beliefs. This has been attempted many a time by stating that the Neturei Karta is a minority group and that compared to other Jewish groups the Neturei Karta aren't even noticeable in terms of number. The name Neturei Karta is a name usually given to those people who regularly pray in the Neturei Karta synagogues (Torah Ve'Yirah Jerusalem, Torah U'Tefillah London, Torah U'Tefillah NY, Beis Yehudi Upstate NY, etc.), study in or send their children to educational institutions run by Neturei Karta, or actively participate in activities, assemblies or demonstrations called by the Neturei Karta. Although it is true that the number of families which could be classified as Neturei Karta members or activists per-se is relatively small (several thousand), the number of Orthodox Jews who believe in the anti-Zionist ideology which Neturei Karta is known for, number in the hundreds of thousands. Neturei Karta oppose the so-called "State of Israel" not because it operates secularly, but because the entire concept of a sovereign Jewish state is contrary to Jewish Law. All the great rabbis who in accordance with Jewish Law opposed Zionism at its inception did not do so merely due to consideration of the secular lifestyles of the then Zionist leaders or even for their opposition to Torah heritage and rejection of its values and practices, but due to the fact that the entire concept of a Jewish state is in direct conflict with a number of Judaism's fundamentals. Condemnation of and segregation from anything connected to or affiliated with the so-called modern day "State of Israel" is based on the Talmud, the key fundamental doctrine of the Oral Tradition handed down by G-d to Moses on Mt. Sinai. The Talmud in Tractate Kesubos (p. 111a), teaches that Jews shall not use human force to bring about the establishment of a Jewish state before the coming of the universally accepted Moshiach (Messiah from the House of David). Furthermore it states that we are forbidden to rebel against the nations and that we should remain loyal citizens and we shall not attempt to leave the exile which G-d sent us into, ahead of time. Jews are not allowed to dominate, kill, harm or demean another people and are not allowed to have anything to do with the Zionist enterprise, their political meddling and their wars. Neturei Karta forbid any participation with the so-called "State of Israel" or any of its subsidiaries. Neturei Karta followers do not participate in "Israeli" elections nor do they accept any aid from "Bituach Le'Umi" (Social Security), and the educational institutions of the Neturei Karta reject any form of financial support from the so-called "Va'ad HaYeshivos" (equiv. to Department of Education). The Zionist state employs a set of chief rabbis and uses religious parties to ornament their state with a clerical image. They study the Torah with commentaries altered to clothe the words with nationalistic nuances. Our rabbis have countless times proclaimed that it matters little which individuals or parties govern in the Zionist state because the very establishment and existence of the state itself is to be condemned and to be deplored. The true Jews remain faithful to Jewish belief and are not contaminated with Zionism. The true Jews are against dispossessing the Arabs of their land and homes. According to the Torah, the land should be returned to them. Neturei Karta deplore the systematic uprooting of ancient Jewish communities by the Zionists, the shedding of Jewish and non-Jewish blood for the sake of Zionist sovereignty and the Neturei Karta favor a peaceful transition from the present Zionist rule to a non-Zionist entity. According to Judaic Law the Torah has the last word. There is no such thing as a majority of Jews who happen to be Jewish by birth who can alter Torah Law in any way. In fact even the greatest rabbi or as Maimonides writes, "even the greatest prophet" [referring actually to an authentic prophet], has no right to distort or amend even one letter of the Torah. Rabbi Blau stated shortly before his death that the acceptance by the United Nations of the Zionist state as a member state constituted a grave injustice to the Jewish people. Neturei Karta hope that this great error will be corrected at the earliest opportunity. The Neturei Karta regret that the Zionist state has usurped the holy name of Israel and that the Zionists so often pretend to speak in the name of the Jewish people and assume the right to act on our behalf. Only those rabbis who have not been affected or influenced by the poison of Zionism, can be considered the spiritual leaders of today's Jewry. The world must know that the Zionists have illegitimately seized the name Israel and have no right to speak in the name of the Jewish people!
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 26, 2006 1:35 AM
in response to:
CrusaderRabbit
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That 'act' would be much better than the disgrace--people --like you--have brought to our country.
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4,958
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The Independents and objective observers communities
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 11, 2006 12:54 AM
in response to:
Roshy
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Why do Bush victimes hate Bush and the criminals elements of the American people? Bush told his supporters" because they hate freedom". and they buy it. More bombs need to rain down American cities for them to ask that question again, so that the victims of robbery in the Muslim world and others can explains the crimes that American theives have perpatrated since the founding of the U.S..
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 11, 2006 10:09 AM
in response to:
songyang
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Why can't Islam coexist with other cultures/religions? Every place where Muslims come up against another religion/culture, there is conflict (Chechnya, Kashmir, Sudan, Nigeria, Phillipines, Israel, etc). When you not fighting someone else, you go back to fighting each other (Sunni vs Shiite). Maybe Islam is not the tolerant, peaceful religion that its followers say it is.
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4,958
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The Independents and objective observers communities
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 12, 2006 2:30 AM
in response to:
mikeogo
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This is the best argument that many robbery ideologists have use to justify Bush robber activities. The argument is still flaw, though because the Muslims are constantly in a state of war against the theives. Many times the theives manage to use the local for humanshield and that is unfortunate, but it show that Muslims are to tolerance for their own good. The thieves told advantage of their tolerance to further his robbery activities.
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9
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Malaysia
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7/13/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 22, 2006 3:29 AM
in response to:
mikeogo
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ok, this is something i would like to comment...who said Islam can't coexist with other cultures & religion. I comes from Malaysia, a country of multi-ethnic, multi-religious nation of 22 millions comprising of Malay, Chinese, Indian and several minority groups. Malaysia's national religion is Islam but others are free to practise their own religion. We does not force anybody to embrace Islam without their own will. Therefore we have Christians, Buddhist, Hindus and etc. We have been living together since our independent day 1957. I have friends ( we practically grew up together) who are christians & buddhists. They have never had any problem in practising their own religion in Malaysia eventhough the national religion is Islam. My mom is a convert (she's chinese) and my father is a Malay. Therefore i have a cousin who are not muslim. we never have any problems in living with each other. When we celebrated Eid they will come to visit our house and wishes us well and when its christmas or deepavali (Hindus festival) or any other religious festivals, we will do the same for them. You know what..this can be achieve if we humans (no matter what your background is)are ready to be more understanding and tolerants to others' culture, beliefs etc.
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243
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United States of America
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8/11/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 22, 2006 11:17 AM
in response to:
Layla.my
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What you describe sounds great. If this is true, you have a free, open, tolerant, and reasonable society. Kudos!
If humans were tolerant and willing to make the effort to understand one another, such could be the case around the world.
But once the suicide bombers start going off in crowded restaurants, killing women and children, human nature is such that the survival instinct takes over. Whoever is different is suspect, not of the herd. This is what radical fundamentalist Muslim leaders rely upon to further their political aims. Terror and the subsequent fear. Fear leads to hate, hate leads to anger and anger leads to suffering.
I for one hate none. I pity the fools...
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 22, 2006 11:38 PM
in response to:
moondawg
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The ongoing conlicts occured because nobody wanted to really understand why this things had happened. What is the main cause that fired up these actions. The key word is "root cause". We keep on talking about these people are acting violently..this & that. But did we ever ponder why did they did it. In some cases, they were just trying to gain & defend their rights as the country's citizens, some cases they were being left behind & abandoned in their country's modernization programs because they are different. Some were actually being oppressed by the governing government & some were simply trying to defend their land, houses & family. There are many reasons & it needs to be tackle case by case Some were unable to find other solutions that will help the world open their eyes & really see what are they forced to go through. But at the same time there are parties that used this peoples' misery to gain their own agenda. Therefore, it prolonged the conflicts. I do not believed in settling problems via violents & war. The parties involved should really acknowledge the problems they are facing & try to settle it peacefully. But how to get these people to settle it peacefully if no one wanted to let down their ego & priorities & start talking with each other. We know that the world has their so called "super power" that oversee what can be done & what cannot be done. So, it is also part of their responsibility to ensure that these problems are settled. They can help to settle it if they really want it. Unfortunately it seems that some of these "giants" are biased & do not want it to end. Certainly they do have their own political agenda. As for moondawg, you are welcome to our country to see for yourself that how wonderful it is to live hand in hand peacefully no matter what differences we have. We will always have our differences as we comes from different background, culture & religion. Even if we embarced the same religion & shared the same background & culture , we will always have our differences because humans were created to be different. what we should start be looking at is what are our similarities & work it out. If only all humans realize it...... .
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1,965
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Kuwait
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6/27/03
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 23, 2006 1:00 AM
in response to:
mikeogo
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I enjoyed the example given of the harmony found in Malaysia and her multi-ethical community. The post seems to me to express that in a Muslim dominate country, others (Christians, Buddhist, and tribal people) are living in peace with no sense of inequity. First I think it’s interesting to just take a quick look at the basis on which Malaysia is built. (Does the Malaysian flag look familiar?) Ah yes, Malaysia, “truly Asia.” That’s how the latest tourism advertisement goes isn’t it? The love of all things Western, is very prevalent in Malaysia. Their love of Western-style industrialization is abundantly clear in its big cities. In fact, just about anything you can find in a Western nation can be found in Malaysia. Malaysia is made up of a diverse ethnic and cultural citizenry. The multiracial and multicultural society in Malaysia is divided into 3 majorities, the Malays, Chinese and Indians. There is also a sizable community of Sikhs and Eurasians. The breakdown is approximately 52% Muslim, 17% Buddhist, 12% Taoist, 8% Christian, 8% Hindu and 2% tribal. Malaysia's national structure is based on a federation of 13 states in Southeast Asia formed in 1963. As states of Malaysia were formerly British colonies, many Malaysian institutions are based on those of the British. Malaysia’s government is built on a federation system. For those of you that aren’t up on governmental institutions, a federation is a union, comprised of a number of partially self-governing states or regions united by a central ("federal") government. In a federation, the self-governing status of the component states are typically constitutionally entrenched and may not be altered by a unilateral decision of the central government. As a parliamentary democracy, the Malaysian government is headed by the Prime Minister and his deputy. It does not rely on Islamic forms of nation governance. This is VERY KEY do the current anomaly of peaceful co-existence in Malaysia between the cultures and religions. Of the thirteen states, nine are headed by their Royal Highnesses, the Sultans. The remaining four states have a mixture of governors and mayors. The Islamic influence in Malaysia is kept in check by the diverse make-up of the rest of the country. Basically speaking, only Muslims are required to follow the tenants of Islam, while the rest of the countries religious groups fall under the democratic system of law. This balance keeps Islam from dominating the rest of the country with its strict laws and ideologies. In recent years, this unique mix of cultures has contributed to Malaysia’s growth as an up and coming economy in Asia. But don’t be too confident. As in all area’s which Muslims are dominate, there are elements insisting on Islamic Law. The status of religious freedom in Malaysia is a controversial issue. Though Islam is recognized as the official state religion. The Constitution of Malaysia does provide for limited freedom of religion. However, questions including whether Malays can convert from Islam and whether Malaysia is an Islamic state or secular state remain unresolved. For the most part, the multiple religions within Malaysia interact peacefully and exhibit mutual respect. This is evident by the continued peaceful co-existence of cultures and ethnic groups. But radical Muslim sects are putting pressure on this harmony. Only time will tell if this unique balance falls because of Islamic intolerance.
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 23, 2006 2:07 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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INTOLERANCE TO WESTERN INFILTRATION OF THEIR CULTURE.
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7/13/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 23, 2006 2:39 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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AmGI, Thank you for the elaborate information on our political & social structure and again i would like to say that to watch & speculate from afar is not the same as living in the environment itself. And yes, maybe many of our citizens did find the western style very interesting but hey, we have other races & people to consider. Just because Muslin are the majority, we can't stop others to live their life. We cannot stop others & even the muslim themselves from adapting those values, its their right. And as for muslim, we recognized that not all western ideas are bad or immoral or whatever you want to say it. We do adapt to those values that are relevant. what is so complicated about that? Is it hard to imagine that we are muslims are human too? We eat when we're hungry, cry when we are sad & etc. Get real! In any society in this world will always encompassed of many groups..radical/non-radical/moderate/those who just don't care & etc. We have seen it in the past, present & surely the pattern will not going to change in the future. If it does then hei..VIVA U-topian States!! We have seen the rise & downfall of all civilization, it was full of these different groups. We can never run from it.Not yesterday, not today & not tomorrow. The question is, what the government should do to make sure all these groups could live together & respect each other despite their differences. That is actually what our government is doing & still doing it in order to ensure what we enjoy will last. For your information, there are cases where muslim converted to other religion. Yes of course, as a muslim we try to stop them from doing so. Still if they really believe that it is their right choice then what else we can do? Surely we do not kill them!!. We can never stop them. The same thing goes to other religion if they know that any of their fellow followers decided to convert to Islam. Its human's nature. But in Malaysia, we never legally stop them as it is their right as the citizen of Malaysia. The same situation happened in europe. Those who converted to Islam sometimes have to keep their new faith a secret because of the pressure they received from their society. So, AmGI, these happened in all parts of the world.I do not want to touch about any particular religion because for me, religion is not the main problem. The problem is actually lies with each individuals that makes the religion. Eventhough if we have only 1 religion in this world, humanity will always have their own different interpretation. That is why education is the most crucial & important aspect in order to make the people/citizens understand the concept of integration, tolerant etc. No society, civilization or country is perfect, as long as we are able to live in a peaceful & harmonious atmosphere...that is all we need & we do appreciate it. so, keep on watching & wish us all the best.
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1,965
From:
Kuwait
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6/27/03
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 23, 2006 5:25 AM
in response to:
Layla.my
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First Layla, let me say I've never been to Malaysia, but I love the commercials you show on TV.  It really looks like a beautiful country. The point of my post is this. The reason you currently have harmony is that the Muslim authority is not "truly" a Muslim authority. The cultural and tribal infussion in Malaysia has kept the "real" Islamic prinicipals in check. I've read cases in which Islamic influence has tried to push itself in traditionally un-Islamic areas and has met with strong opposition and run out of the region. So the division and secularism exist, but the democratic/federalist government keeps the "real" purpose of Islamic rule in check.
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9
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7/13/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 23, 2006 8:54 PM
in response to:
AmGI
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What do you mean by "truly" a muslim authority. Do you even know how truly muslim authority are? Do know what is islamic political system all about? and please don't tell me u think that Saudi Arabia, Kuwait or any country in the middle east who believed their political system is a truly islamic states is actually "truly" muslim authority. You are definitely wrong my friend. I study political science & we study all political system in the world & believe me theirs do not represent "truly" muslim states. They might think they are but no they're not. Yes in some aspect they adopt the islamic political system but leave those that they think will not benefit them, then proclaimed that their country is a fully islamic state. Therefore, the world who have no idea or partially knows how islamic political system works think this is the "truly" islamic states should be & this is what Islam teach its believer. even Malaysia is not based on truly islamic concept of political & judicial system.You heard only about muslim radicals in Malaysia, did you know that there are also a radical pressure groups from christian & hindu that existed here. As i said before, i do not want to touch about religion because for me, in order to discuss about religion all parties should really know ( i mean really study, learn & understand) about it & not just "i know it! It how these people potrayed it, it justified these people behaviour so on & so forth. As what Shakespeare said " Ignorance is the root of evil" & I'm not considering myself free from ignorance yet. All i want to tell you here is that, Islam never joy over death it cherish peace & it is the most tolerant religion i ever know. why we are facing such conflict is because of human's desire to want & possess what they think its right for them & people assuming what they think is right & relevant or what makes them happy should makes other people feel the same. Please do not blame it on the religion because no religion in this world ever teaches its followers to do bad things. As for that, i rest my case.
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1,965
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Kuwait
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 24, 2006 4:15 PM
in response to:
Layla.my
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To keep it short and sweet? Yeah, I understand "real" Islamic Law (Sharhia Law) and yes, you're correct that currently, no nation follows it to the letter. (Thank God) My point is, Malaysia enjoys a diversity because Islamic Law IS NOT enforced to the letter. If it was... Malaysia wouldn't be close to what it is today. I'd be in the same ranks as Afghanistan. I can understand you're reluctance in discussing religion. That's ok by me. It's hard to take hits against something you really believe in. I don't mind that. In fact, I respect you for it. Keeping it to yourself means you believe religion is a private matter. I'm afraid though, you're idealism that Islam is a religion of peace just doesn't seem to hold much water today in the real world. Hundreds of thousand's of Muslims are finding justifications THROUGH Islam to wage terror against the rest of the world. If Islam was such a tolorant and peaceful religion, these wakco's wouldn't be able to so easily distort Islam into a hateful message. I rest my case.
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 24, 2006 7:26 PM
in response to:
AmGI
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SAME OLD STUFF---YOU HATE MUSLIMS---YOU ARE PAID TO ROAM THIS WEBSITE---PRESENTING THE SAME OLD U.S. GOVERNMENT LINE.
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9
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7/13/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 24, 2006 9:18 PM
in response to:
AmGI
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"It's hard to take hits against something you really believe in." Then, the same goes to you AmGI.
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1,965
From:
Kuwait
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6/27/03
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 25, 2006 5:17 AM
in response to:
Layla.my
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Of course it is Layla, that's why I said I respect you for not going there. Once you do, you open the door. It's you're belief and I respect that.
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9
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7/13/06
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 23, 2006 3:20 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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August 20, 2006 (something to share) John L Esposito: It’s the Policy, Stupid US foreign policy and political Islam today are deeply intertwined. Every US president since Jimmy Carter has had to deal with political Islam; none has been so challenged as George W. Bush. Policymakers, particularly since 9/11, have demonstrated an inability and/or unwillingness to distinguish between radical and moderate Islamists. They have largely treated political Islam as a global threat similar to the way that Communism was perceived. However, even in the case of Communism, foreign policymakers eventually moved from an ill-informed, broad-brush, and paranoid approach personified by Senator Joseph McCarthy in the 1950s to more nuanced, pragmatic, and reasonable policies that led to the establishment of relations with China in the 1970s, even as tensions remained between the United States and the Soviet Union. As Islamist parties continue to rise in prominence across the globe, it is necessary that policymakers learn to make distinctions and adopt differentiated policy approaches. This requires a deeper understanding of what motivates and informs Islamist parties and the support they receive, including the ways in which some US policies feed the more radical and extreme Islamist movements while weakening the appeal of the moderate organizations to Muslim populations. It also requires the political will to adopt approaches of engagement and dialogue. This is especially important where the roots of political Islam go deeper than simple anti-Americanism and where political Islam is manifested in non-violent and democratic ways. The stunning electoral victories of HAMAS in Palestine and the Shi’a in Iraq, the Muslim Brotherhood’s emergence as the leading parliamentary opposition in Egypt, and Israel’s war against HAMAS and Hizbollah go to the heart of issues of democracy, terrorism, and peace in the Middle East. Global terrorism has also become the excuse for many Muslim autocratic rulers and Western policymakers to backslide or retreat from democratization. They warn that the promotion of a democratic process runs the risk of furthering Islamist inroads into centers of power and is counterproductive to Western interests, encouraging a more virulent anti-Westernism and increased instability. Thus, for example, despite HAMAS’ victory in free and democratic elections, the United States and Europe failed to give the party full recognition and support. In relations between the West and the Muslim world, phrases like a clash of civilizations or a clash of cultures recur as does the charge that Islam is incompatible with democracy or that it is a particularly militant religion. But is the primary issue religion and culture or is it politics? Is the primary cause of radicalism and anti-Westernism, especially anti-Americanism, extremist theology or simply the policies of many Muslim and Western governments? A new Gallup World Study overwhelmingly suggests the latter. The poll, whose results are released for the first time in this article, now enables us to get beyond conflicting analyses of experts and selective voices from the “Arab street.” It lets us listen to one billion Muslims from Morocco to Indonesia. And they tell us that US policies, not values, are behind the ire of the Arab/Muslim world. Political Islam: Ballots or Bullets? History demonstrates that political Islam is both extremist and mainstream. On the one hand, Ayatollah Khomeini’s Iran, the Taliban’s Afghanistan, and Osama Bin Laden and al-Qaeda as well as terrorists from Morocco to Indonesia have espoused a revolutionary Islam that relies on violence and terror. On the other, many Islamist social and political movements across the Muslim world have worked within the political system. Since the late 20th century Islamically-oriented candidates and political parties in Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Jordan, Kuwait, Bahrain, Pakistan, Malaysia, and Indonesia have opted for ballots, not bullets. They have successfully contested and won municipal and parliamentary seats, held cabinet positions, and served in senior positions such as prime minister of Turkey and Iraq and president of Indonesia. Elections since late 2001 in Pakistan, Turkey, Bahrain, and Morocco as well as in Palestine, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt have reinforced the continued saliency of Islam in Muslim politics in the 21st century. The more contentious aspect of political Islam has been the extent to which militant groups like Hizbollah and HAMAS have turned to the ballot box. Hizbollah transformed itself into a Lebanese political party that has proven effective in parliamentary elections. At the same time, it remained a militia, fighting and eventually forcing Israeli withdrawal in 2000 from its 18-year occupation of southern Lebanon. HAMAS defeated the PLO in democratic elections. In responding to mainstream and extremist political Islam, US foreign policymakers require a better understanding of how global Muslim majorities see the world and, in particular, how they regard the United States. The new Gallup World Poll now enables us to move towards that understanding, finally answering the oft-asked questions: What do Muslims polled across the world have to say? How many Muslims hold extremist views? What are their priorities? What do they admire and what do they resent about the United States and the West? According to the Gallup Poll, 7 percent think the 9/11 attacks were “completely” justified and are very critical of the United States. Among those who believe that 9/11 was not justified, whom we’ll call the moderates, 40 percent are pro-US and 60 percent view the United States unfavorably. It is important to look more closely at the 7 percent of whom we can call “anti-US extremists,” not because all or even a significant number of them commit acts of violence, but because those with extremist views are a potential source for recruitment or support for terrorist groups. This group of potential extremists is also more likely to view other civilian attacks as justifiable. In contrast to 95 percent of moderates who said that “Other attacks in which civilians are the target were ‘mostly’ or ‘completely’ unjustified,” only 70 percent of the potential radicals agreed with this statement. Why Do They Hate Us? Is there a blind hatred of the United States? The question “Why do they hate us?” raised in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 looms large following continued terrorist attacks and the dramatic growth of anti-Americanism. A common answer provided by some politicians and experts has been, “They hate our way of life, our freedom, democracy, and success.” Considering the broad based anti-Americanism, not only among extremists but also among a significant mainstream majority in the Muslim world (and indeed in many other parts of the world), this answer is not satisfactory. Although the Muslim world expresses many common grievances, do extremists and moderates differ in attitudes about the West? Focusing on the attitudes of those with radical views and comparing them with the moderate majority results in surprising findings. When asked what they admired most about the West, both extremists and moderates had the identical top three spontaneous responses: (1) technology; (2) the West’s value system, hard work, self-responsibility, rule of law, and cooperation; and (3) its fair political systems, democracy, respect for human rights, freedom of speech, and gender equality. A significantly higher percent of potential extremists than moderates (50 percent versus 35 percent) believe that “moving towards greater governmental democracy” will foster progress in the Arab/Muslim world. Potential extremists believe even more strongly than moderates (58 percent versus 45 percent) that Arab/Muslim nations are eager to have better relations with the West. Finally, no significant difference exists between the percentage of potential extremists and moderates who said “better relations with the West concerns me a lot.” While many believe anti-Americanism is tied to a basic hatred of the West and deep West-East religious and cultural differences, the data above contradicts these views. In addition, Muslim assessments of individual Western countries demonstrate that Muslim views do not paint all Western countries with the same brush. Unfavorable opinions of the United States or the United Kingdom do not preclude favorable attitudes towards other Western countries like France or Germany. Data shows that while moderates have very unfavorable opinions of the United States (42 percent) and Great Britain (34 percent), unfavorable opinions of France (15 percent) and Germany (13 percent) were far less and in fact comparable to the percent of Muslims who viewed Pakistan or Turkey unfavorably (both at 12 percent). Democratic Exceptionalism? What creates unfavorable attitudes towards the United States? Belief that the United States is serious about democracy in Muslim countries has long been undermined by what is perceived as the United States’ “double standard” in promoting democracy. Key factors of this perception include a long track record of supporting authoritarian regimes in the Arab and Muslim world while not promoting democracy there as it did elsewhere after the fall of the Soviet Union. Then, when weapons of mass destruction were not to be found in Iraq, the Bush administration boldly declared that the US-led invasion and the toppling of Saddam Hussein were intended to bring democracy to Iraq as part of a broader policy of promoting democracy in the Middle East. In a major policy address, Ambassador Richard Haass, a senior State Department official in the George W. Bush administration, acknowledged that both Democratic and Republican administrations had practiced what he termed “Democratic Exceptionalism” in the Muslim world: subordinating democracy to other national interests such as accessing oil, containing the Soviet Union, and grappling with the Arab-Israeli conflict. While the spread of democracy has been the stated goal of the United States, majorities in every nation surveyed by Gallup do not believe that the United States was serious about the establishment of democratic systems in the region. For example, only 24 percent in Egypt and Jordan and only 16 percent in Turkey agreed that the United States was serious about establishing democratic systems. The largest groups in agreement are in Lebanon and Indonesia at 38 percent; but even there, 58 percent of Lebanese and 52 percent of Indonesians disagreed with the statement. How can this be? Responses to another question shed some light. When respondents were asked if they believe the United States will allow people in the region to fashion their own political future as they see fit without direct US influence, only 22 percent of Jordanians agreed, and as low as 16 percent of Pakistanis. Yet, while saying that the United States is not serious about self-determination and democracy in the Muslim world, many respondents say the thing they admire most about the West is political liberty and freedom of speech. Large percentages also associate a fair judicial system and “citizens enjoying many liberties” with Western societies while critiquing their own societies. Lack of political freedom was what they admired least about the Islamic/Arab world. The United States After Gaza and Lebanon Muslim perceptions of the US role and response to the Israeli wars in Gaza and Lebanon must also be seen within the broad context of the Arab and Muslim world. From North Africa to Southeast Asia, the Gallup World Poll indicates an overwhelming majority of people (91-95 percent) do not believe that the United States is trustworthy, friendly, or treats other countries respectfully, nor that it cares about human rights in other countries (80 percent). Outside of Iraq, over 90 percent of Muslims agreed that the invasion of Iraq has done more harm than good. The Bush administration recognized that the war on global terrorism has come to be equated in the minds of many Muslims (and others) with a war against Islam and the Muslim world and reemphasized the importance of public diplomacy. The administration appointed a senior Bush confidante, Karen Hughes, as Under Secretary for Public Diplomacy, and spoke of a war of ideas. However, public diplomacy is more than public relations. It is about acting consistently with the words one speaks – and so a return to foreign policy. The administration’s responses in Gaza and in Lebanon undercut both the president’s credibility and the war on terrorism. The United States turned a blind eye to Israel’s launching of two wars in which civilians were the primary casualties. The United States failed to support UN mediation in the face of clear violations of international law, refused to heed calls for a ceasefire and UN intervention, and continued to provide military assistance to Israel. UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan’s criticism of the Israeli bombardment of Lebanon as an “excessive use of force” was countered the next day by the New York Times headline United States speeds up bomb delivery for the Israelis. America’s unconditional support of Israel cast it in the eyes of many as a partner, not simply in military action against HAMAS or Hizbollah militants, but in a war against the democratically elected Palestinian government in Gaza and the government of Lebanon, a long-time US ally. The primary victims in Gaza and Lebanon were hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, not terrorists. In Lebanon, more than 500 were killed, 2,000 wounded, and 800,000 displaced. Israeli’s military destroyed the civilian infrastructures of both Gaza and Lebanon. International organizations like the United Nations, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch have criticized Israel for violating international law. Amnesty and Human Rights Watch has specifically cited the use of collective punishment and war crimes. The regional blowback from the approach that the United States has taken will be enormous and enduring. The Bush administration’s promotion of democracy and the Middle East Peace Process are in critical condition. The United States remains mired in Iraq and Afghanistan with no clear “success” stories in sight. The situation has been compounded by the US failure to respect the democratic choice of Palestinians, whatever its reservations, and then its passive and active compliance with Israel’s wars in Gaza and Lebanon. HAMAS and Hizbollah have become symbols of resistance, enjoying a level of support that would have been unimagined in the past throughout much of the Muslim world. At the same time, many US allies in the Arab/Muslim world increasingly use the threat of extreme Islamists and the war against terrorism as excuses for increased authoritarianism and repression, trading their support for United States backing down on its democratic agenda. The unintended consequences of uncritical US support for Israel’s extended war have played right into the hands of the Bin Ladens of the world. A critical challenge for US policymakers will continue to be the need to distinguish between mainstream and extremists groups and to work with democratically-elected Islamists. US administrations have often said that they distinguish between mainstream and extremist groups. However, more often that not, they have looked the other way when autocratic rulers in Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, and elsewhere have intimidated and suppressed mainstream Islamist groups or attempted to reverse their successes in elections in the past several decades. In the early 1990s, the Algerian military intervened to deny the Islamic Salvation Front its victory in parliamentary elections. Both the Algerian and Tunisian governments arrested and tried the Islamic party militarily, and were denounced by the international community. More recently, Egyptian elections were marred by attempts to silence opposition candidates, including the Muslim Brotherhood. In the post-election period, the Mubarak government, a long-time US ally, imprisoned the only opposition presidential candidate and cracked down on the Muslim Brotherhood and the Egyptian press. Despite its commitment to democratization, the Bush administration has been virtually silent. A more recent and complex challenge is dealing with resistance movements like HAMAS and Hizbollah. Both are elected political parties with a popular base. At the same time they are resistance movements whose militias have fought Israeli occupation and whom Israel, the United States, and Europe have labeled as terrorist organizations. There are established precedents for dealing with such groups, such as the ANC in South Africa and Sinn Fein, the political wing of the IRA in Ireland, groups with which we’ve had to come to terms. The United States and others need to deal with the democratically elected officials, while also strongly condemning any acts of terrorism by their militias. Diplomacy, economic incentives, and sanctions should be emphasized, with military action taken as a last resort. However, overuse of economic sanctions by the Clinton and Bush administrations has reduced US negotiating leverage with countries like Iran and Sudan. Equally difficult, the United States, while affirming its enduring support for Israel’s existence and security, must clearly demonstrate that this support has clear limits. The United States should condemn Israel’s disproportionate use of force, collective punishment, and other violations of international law. Finally, most fundamental and important is the recognition that widespread anti-Americanism among mainstream Muslims and Islamists results from what the United States does—its policies and actions—not its way of life, culture, or religion. The Gallup Organization, in association with Gallup Senior Scientist John L. Esposito, is producing the “largest, most in-depth study of Muslim opinion ever done.” Its careful and rigorous methodology has taken care to ensure that the data is nationally representative, with questions and interview lengths standardized across nations and over time. The preliminary findings of the Gallup study reflect the voices and opinions of 800 million Muslims from Morocco to Indonesia. Samples include at least 1,000 adults surveyed in each of the poll’s 10 targeted preliminary countries. By the end of 2006, the study will reflect the views of more than one billion Muslims in nearly 40 countries, about 90 percent of the world’s Muslim population. John L. Esposito is University Professor of Religion & International Affairs and Director of the Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University. He is the author of Unholy War: Terror in the Name of Islam and co-author with Dalia Mogahed of Can You Hear Me Now? Listening to the Voices of 1 Billion Muslims (forthcoming). © 2003-2006 The Harvard International Review. All rights reserved. The Harvard International Review
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 24, 2006 10:02 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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The recent survey in Malaysia by a University Malaya academician: <85% of the respondents chose either, "dislike" or "hate", the US government.>
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1,965
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 25, 2006 7:10 AM
in response to:
Jamna
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So this valuble survey you're posting consist of what? 1,500 students that can't even tell you what they think their major will be next year? A survey at the Jonestown Baptist Church said 100% of them believe Mohammad is the Anti-Christ. Does that survey hold water with you?
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 28, 2006 9:01 PM
in response to:
AmGI
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And we'll have haters like you to point out to "Moslems" being the cause of that disharmony right?
When things go right, its because of the "Westernization" not 'globalization and Islamic tolerance' but when things go bad of course it's the damn "Muslims" who oppress just as they did in Spain, Turkey, and Palestine (all places where Jews were given asylum and protected status from their persecution and inquisition in "tolerant" "Christian" Europe.)
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 23, 2006 1:09 PM
in response to:
mikeogo
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are you just realizing that, there is not much peace where they are concerned, I think a peaceful Muslim only believes in half of the Koran, only in half of the hadiths, and only in the parts which they deem as peaceful, the truth is the are Christians but still don't realize it, and have never found or sought Jesus Christ
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4,958
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The Independents and objective observers communities
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 29, 2006 3:17 PM
in response to:
mikeogo
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When you not fighting someone else, you go back to fighting each other (Sunni vs Shiite). Maybe Islam is not the tolerant, peaceful religion that its followers say it is. It is sad isn't it. Muslim is a religion that is infiltrate by the thieves in the U.S. Their divisions and internal disagreement had make them vulnerable to be attack and rob by the thieves in the U.s. and Europe. If the Muslim people had follow the prophet's advice, thieves in the U.s. would have achieve in killing all these in innocent people and robbed all these lands and resources. I agree with you that if Muslim want to stop the thievs and keep the thieves from murdering their men, women, and children; rob their resources, destroying their homes, and torture their mom and dad, they must become more tolerant of each others.
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Posts:
4,958
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The Independents and objective observers communities
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Oct 6, 2006 9:22 PM
in response to:
mikeogo
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Why can't Islam coexist with other cultures/religions? Good questions. I am not a Muslim, but I Muslims seem to be okay with that. Bush and his co-robbers are not a Muslim, and Muslim hate him. From this point alone I think the Muslim just don't like thieves. I can't blame for hating thieves after all thieves are evil people. It would be unthinkable to suggest that thieves must be excepted the way they are. This very dangerous suggestion. Every place where Muslims come up against another religion/culture, there is conflict (Chechnya, Kashmir, Sudan, Nigeria, Phillipines, Israel, etc). When you not fighting someone else, you go back to fighting each other (Sunni vs Shiite). The ideology of robbery had spread further than I thought. As long as we continue to allow the thieves in the U.s. to kill people for a living, we will have problems. I just hope more people would understand this situation. Maybe Islam is not the tolerant, peaceful religion that its followers say it is. I disagree that Islam is not tolerant. After seeing the Muslim allow thieves, murderers, and people that openly aiding the thieves post on this forum, I have to say that Muslims are the most tolerance people in this world.
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Re: And We Ask, “Why Do They Hate Us?”
Posted:
Aug 13, 2006 9:20 PM
in response to:
Roshy
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The Arc of "Ziono-Fascism" :: Forcing America To Pay and Die for Israel ::by Mohamed Khodr (Sunday August 13 2006) "How many manufactured wars were started by the “civilized west” that began with lies, propaganda, demonization, slander, and then genocide? Literally, hundreds."
“The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion (to which few members of other civilizations were converted) but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.” -- Samuel Huntington, “The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order” These are the worst of times for our nation, a nation allegedly governed by the consent of the people, yet surrendered its vision, liberty, intellect, and army to pursue the ends of the new world order, the order of “Ziono-Fascism” serving a higher purpose than the divine sanctity of life, America’s pursuit of worldwide friendship, and world peace. Such an order would not be possible without an American government run from within and without by men of greed, men of “Judeo-Christian” warmongers, men of arrogant uncompromising thought, men of singular purpose who take every “Ziono-Fascist” provocation to lie, deceive, demonize, and massacre any nation opposed to their tyranny; men who know the power of propaganda to spin their policies of murder into the spin of democratizing the world, spin death into a necessary sacrifice for liberty. Who are these evil men of possessed intellect, evil hearts and blood stained hands? “The Arabs are right when they paint America as a great Zionist conspiracy.” -- Prof. Doughlas Rushkoff, N.Y. University “Wrestling with Zion” (Grove Press, 2003). They are the Parrots of the powerful few “Ziono-Fascist”, who have today and for a long time in the future led this gullible naïve populace to die and pay for Israel;a nation artificially created by lies, terrorism, and ethnic cleansing; a nation that ferments provocations and hopes for more “wars with the Arabs” as Moshe Dayan said, to fulfill its agenda of a “Greater Israel”. Israel’s victory in the six day war of 1967 transformed the former “Anti-Semitic” Christian Fundamentalists into die hard supporters for Israel. For them, supporting Israel arises from their hate of the Jews as ones that must be totally exterminated (exception: 144,000 converted Jews) in the Battle of Armageddon to hasten the return of the ‘Prince of Peace”. A holocaust to save the masses; much like the Bush-Blair genocide of Iraq to save it from Saddam and the “Islamo-Fascists.” Who are these “Ziono-Fascists”? The Parroters of the Israel Lobby: Bush, the NeoCongress, the Media, and Christian Fundamentalists. The inherently Zionist, dictator wanna be single minded bipolar Bush who couldn’t recall a mistake he’s made, sees no contradiction between his Pro-Life Belief and Pro-Death policies in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, and the Occupied Palestinian territories. This is a man who claims Jesus as his personal “philosopher”; while in reality his DNA’s spiritual guide and philosopher is the “Ziono-Fascist” Natan Sharansky, a human rights advocate who’s never met a Palestinian, Muslim or Christian, worthy of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Bush, the eternally confused, bares his intellectual depravity in this fashion: “I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them." But what drives these “Ziono-Fascists” to destroy the Muslim world, a world that will not succumb to precision bombs, abandon its faith, but contains 60% of the world’s oil reserves? Buddha had the answer: “They are inflamed by greed, incensed by hate, confused by delusion, overcome by them, and obsessed by mind.” No one should ever underestimate what J. J. Goldberg calls “Jewish Power.” In fact, the Jewish American Professor Yuri Slezkine’s latest book is entitled: “The Jewish Century”. The first sentence in his book’s introduction reads: “The Modern Age is the Jewish Age, and the Twentieth Century, in particular is the Jewish Century.” Such power is acknowledged by Americans of all persuasions and vocations, many of them Jews, in addition to worldwide opinion. In fact, a poll found that fully 34% of Americans believe Jews have too much power in this country. But that’s not all, such a belief is held by a great majority of Israeli Jews: "When [Israeli public opinion survey company] Hanoch Smith asked his Israeli respondents whether the Jews of America have control of important branches of the American economy, 73 PER CENT replied in the affirmative ... In a non-Jewish society, this would have aroused suspicion of anti-Semitism, but emanating from a Jewish society, it seemed both a matter of pride and bewilderment." -- Colin Shindler, Ploughshares into Swords. Israelis and Jews in the Shadow of the Intifada, I. B. Tauris, London, 1991, p. 94-95 George Washington warned this nation of such a “passionate attachment” to a foreign country lest that country influences, even controls America’s foreign policy to serve its interests and fight its wars. Similarly Thomas Jefferson spoke of the danger of “foreign entanglements”. Woodrow Wilson who lamented the death of the League of Nations as “breaking the world’s heart” spoke of the power of “special interests” on our government as an “invisible empire set up above the forms of democracy”. Wilson perhaps prophetically was referring to Washington D.C.’s power broker, Israel’s AIPAC, our capitol’s foreign government, when he said: “A little group of willful men, representative of no opinion but their own, have rendered the great government of the United States helpless and contemptible.” Indeed Israel has successfully made America the world’s most contemptible nation. Eisenhower warned America of the power of the “military industrial complex” that has rendered the Pentagon a lobbying firm for Corporations of death selling arms, weapons, and technology to the highest bidder including Apartheid Israel, Saddam Hussein, the Shah, Suharto, Somoza, Noriega, Pinochet, China, and most of dictatorial Africa. America sells close to half of the world’s weapons while fighting for “world freedom and peace.” Israel and our government’s worst enemies are true democracies and their best friends are dictators, those who are easily bribed, intimidated, or killed. The primary weapon for the “Ziono-Fascists” is the few but all powerful corporate media that formulate, dominate, and ensure popular compliance with domestic and foreign policies that serve Israel, not America. This is possible because our culture unquestionably ingests, regurgitates, is consumed by and lives by the sounds and images of an all powerful media and entertainment indoctrination. Advertising creates the “analytic mind” that chooses a brand of toilet paper or supports wars. They advertise, therefore I think. Recently I was sitting in a doctor’s office with about 20 patients awaiting my appointment. The television in the room was tuned into MSNBC. The main story was Israel’s total devastation of Lebanon and Hezbollah’s retaliatory strikes. Not one single person was looking at the television set or listening to the news; all were either flipping through magazines, reading local papers, conversing, or avoiding any eye contact. The news then turned to Mel Gibson’s drunken remarks. Suddenly, their minds awakened from a bored slumber, their eyes turned to the television with the keenest of interest, and smiles filled their once morbid faces. Dying children was of no interest to this group, but celebrity news was fascinating. Professor Michael Parenti wrote of this disconnect between Americans and their governmental foreign policies for wars of hegemony, wars for wealth, and wars for Israel when he wrote: "The enormous gap between what US leaders do in the world and what Americans think their leaders are doing is one of the great propaganda accomplishments of the dominant political mythology." How many manufactured wars were started by the “civilized west” that began with lies, propaganda, demonization, slander, and then genocide? Literally, hundreds. Alexis de Tocqueville encapsulated America’s intellectual laziness, propensity to unquestionably follow the media and opinion makers---those doctors of murderous spin, and the parroting corrupt politicians when he wrote: “I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America.” Today’s “ism” is “Ziono-Fascism”, a belief that Israel can do what it must toward the oppressed Palestinians, the pro-western weak Lebanon, the “next stop….Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, the Gulf”; in essence, the entire impotent Arab Un-Leagued nations, while they must suffer what they must in “quiet”. Israel is simply following the “Bush Doctrine” of “Pre-emption” against “Islamo-Fascists”; defined as those who oppose occupation, oppression, injustice, theft of land, resources, and wanton massacres by a “moral” army that does not kill, rape, abuse, burn, torture, starve, besiege, imprisons thousands, prevents free movement, forces pregnant women to deliver at checkpoints, abuse human rights, or disallow, food, water, life saving medicines, or baby formulas to “civilians.” Israel gets away with murder because it has the protection of the Israel First Neo-Congress and media advocacy that grows in intensity each time Israel intensifies its killing spree against Arabs and Muslims. H.L. Mencken quipped that "freedom of the press is limited to those who own one". To Israel and America their victims are A.W.O.L.—Arabs With Out Life. "International politics are conducted by the media in today's world. Israel must win this war." -- Professor Amos Perlmutter Underlying the entire history of western colonialism toward the “other” is pure RACISM. It is the historical hallmark of “White Anglo Ziono-Fascism”, not of Islam. If Islam sought the total annihilation of Jews there would be no Jews alive today, rather, it was Islam that provided the safety, security, shelter, and opportunity to European Jews escaping the “peaceful” faith of Europe. Today’s “Ziono-Fascists” are believers and followers of the mantra of Jules Harmand, the Indo-China French Colonialist (1910) “We belong to the superior race and civilization… The basic justification of conquest over native peoples is the conviction of our superiority - not just economic and military but also moral…That quality underlies our right to direct the rest of humanity.” Americans are fed up and disgusted by their government’s blind and pandering support of Israel, right or wrong. They’re sick of having their hard earned dollars be quietly siphoned to a powerful rich nation while their children go hungry, homeless and uninsured. They’re furious that American weapons, delivered by Israel courtesy of their taxes, are massacring innocent civilians at will in Palestine and Iraq. Shrapnels removed from the brains of innocent children carry the sign: “Made in America” Only Jewish life is Holy in the Holy Land, non-Jews are second class expendable citizens. A recent poll showed 60% of Israelis support ethnically cleansing Israeli Arabs, Muslims and Christians, from Israel proper. America can no longer support or arm the Apartheid racist state of Israel that has never stopped fighting, killing, annexing, ethnically cleansing, and invading Arab nations since its founding. Palestine and America are now occupied territories. The brave people of Connecticut dumped the Jewish Senator Joe Lieberman for his support of Bush’s Iraqi killing fields; now the entire nation must dump every Congressman who puts Israel’s interest above our national interest. We must end our quagmire with Israel and in Iraq to liberate our nation from the shackles of the “Ziono-Fascists”. “The United States should seek to allay the deep resentment against it that has resulted from the creation of Israel. In the past we had good relations with the Arab peoples…..there was mutual confidence to mutual advantage….Today the Arab peoples are afraid that the United States will back the new state of Israel in aggressive expansion….expansionist Zionism”. -- Secretary of State John Foster Dulles while visiting Palestine in 1953. - Donald Neff, “Fifty Years of Israel” pg. 259 Source:
by courtesy & © 2006 Mohamed Khodr
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61
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2/4/02
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One American said :
Posted:
Aug 25, 2006 7:02 AM
in response to:
Roshy
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I am sorry we have propped up 100 years of dictatorships in your land just so we could steal your oil.
I am sorry we recognize a Jewish "right of return" that is 2,000 years old...but not a Palestinian right of return to homes they were born in.
I am sorry we killed one million Iraqis by refusing to lift sanctions after Iraq destroyed its WMD.
I am sorry we used the acts of 19 men as a pretext to invade two countries and kill over 100,000 people.
I am sorry we cloak ourselves in moral superiority as we kidnap, torture, and murder you.
I am sorry we threaten your lives when you comply with the non-proliferation treaty, but ignore our own violations of the non-proliferation treaty.
We do not deserve your forgiveness: but I ask for it anyway.
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Posts:
1,965
From:
Kuwait
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6/27/03
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 25, 2006 7:14 AM
in response to:
Kenda
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WoW! That's a lot of baggage you've got there Kenda. You think you could get them to apologize for some of the bad things they've done??
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 25, 2006 7:44 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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Well if I was smart and powerful enough to control their media and elections campaigns then yes I can.
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Posts:
1,965
From:
Kuwait
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 25, 2006 9:40 AM
in response to:
Kenda
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Sorry Kenda, it don't work that way. The US has done it's fare share of stupid stuff and unfortunately innocent people have die as a result. Islam and Muslims have too. We can only hope that the wars we fight are for a good cause and that we never forget those that have given their lives to fight the good fight. This is more than a battle of wills. It's a battle of looking to the future or reverting to the past. We won't always be right in all our decisions, but we can't stop making them because we're affraid we'll make a wrong one. Mistakes are made in war, but we go on. This is currently just one battle in a long series of battles.
Today it's Iraq and Afghanistan. Israel and Hezbollah/Hamas. Tomorrow it could be London or Paris. Maybe even Washington D.C. Where ever, we must continue to stand against militant Islamist that seek to destroy humanity in the name of Allah.
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 25, 2006 10:49 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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The Muslim militant was created by people like you. Why don't you keep your rhetoric short? Tell your commander, that you differ with him--regarding these lengthy posts.
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61
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 25, 2006 10:50 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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Hi AMGI I have copied what one American said once, what you call by Islamic militants that need to destroy humanity in the name of Allah, were established and funded with the aid of the US and the western countries to fight and struggle against the socialists and the communists, particularly the USSR during the 70's and 80's. And now the magic has turned into the wizard. In my opinion, its not only America's fault, those youth who left everything behind and went to fight against the USSR in Afghanistan and continued to till now with Osama and others forget that the real Jihad or strive must had started in their nations. Means they had to struggle to get their rights as citizens, not by violence but like all the free people did before, and you know that the people in the nations like the US and France for example had exhausted conflicts with their governments before they become a real world. But do I exclude the west in general from what's going on now ? No way, because they are real players that happened to stand most of the time against Arabic/Islamic nations for business and strategic reasons. The only funny thing that I hear daily in the US media that they are trying to convince their people that we hate them because of the freedom issues or that its deeply rooted in our faith to hate or kill or threaten anyone who does not support us, easy like drinking a cup of water. Why the US must have been blamed more ? cause as you know its the no.1 super power and acclaimed to be a first world and the democracy homeland. And we are still a third world ran by a bunch of dictators and backwards parties. So who you think shall be blamed more ?
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Posts:
1,965
From:
Kuwait
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 26, 2006 7:57 AM
in response to:
Kenda
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Hey Kenda, You're right. I won't deny that the US did support Osama and those like him in an effort to stop Soviet expansion south. At the time (Cold War) I'm sure this all looked like a great idea and it only made common sense that the mujahedin (who loved God and hated communism) were the right people at the right time to support.
But what's the old adege?? "Hind sight is 20/20." It's only recently that the West has picked up on the main mission of Jidadist like Osama. He's really been good at putting a strait forward face on complicated international issues. He's been able to paint the picture that the West is out to destroy Islam, and that anyone who excepts help or does business with the West is also a traitor to Islam. He's turned this into a battle of cultures and religions. The people that are fighting with Osama bin Laden or allied with them are indeed freedom fighters in their own context. Their main aim is to overthrow police states, such as that run by Mubarak in Egypt, by the al-Saud family in Saudi Arabia. And a lot of the hatred that accumulates for America is because we are seen as their protectors.
This is the realities. Many of the jihadists we're facing today are adherents of Salafism, which is the fastest growing sect in Islam today. These people believe it preaches a kind of "true Islamic fundamentalism" that calls for a very austere and, in their view, more authentic version of Islam. It preaches the supremacy of Islam, and the need of Islam to dominate the world so as to bring a true peace to the planet and justice to the injust. Of course this type of ideology doesn't really care if other peoples want Islam or not. Salafism is a strain of Islam that expresses a desire to be authentic in terms of how the Prophet and his companions lived. It's very economically austere. It is martial to a certain extent. It has a strong military tradition. But it strips away all of the accumulation of different rituals and prayers and procedures in Islam that have accumulated since the Prophet's death and tries to go back to a very pure practice of the religion, as the Prophet did. This is actually why other Muslim sects (Sunni/Shiite) see Osama as a threat also. This is the threat we face. I'm not so much concerned with the average Kuwait that live across the hall from me. He likes beer as much as I do.  It's these fundamentalist groups that are deticated to installing Islam at any cost.
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 26, 2006 10:09 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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The u.s. has--always had an 'enemy of the month club.' From Castro to Saddam, since the period of the cold war-- and beyond. All to justify MILITARY BUILUP PROFITS, People --like AmGi, or Frontline--are surrogates for this corrupt, u.s. based institution--that would destroy--whatever, whenever, to justify this madness. First, the commies. Now, the Muslims. They always have their rhetoric--Always attempting to justify injustice. ALL FOR PROFIT.
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 28, 2006 1:29 PM
in response to:
AmGI
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Hi AMGI, One thing to mention that the US goverment and all its agencies were not only aware of the nature of the fighters in Afghanistan but also the Salafism line, but as you said they just used them when they were needed, exactly like what they did with Sadaam, he was a great ally to the US during the 80's since he attacked for the whole decade the Islamic revolution in Iran, and its cynical that on this trial that we watch these days Sadaam is the only who is been accused of the massacres of the Kurdish , neglecting those who really provided & authorized him to use the mass destructions weapons to kill and murder ( all brought by deals with US, Mr. Rumsfield supervised it him self). So don't try to show them as innocents, those fighters were and still act like puppets in their hands, using them wherever they need an excuse to invade Iraq or to justify the Israel invasion of South Lebanon. Its a policy that has lasted now for decades based on greediness for natural resources and giving the greatest profits for Bush, Rumsfielf, Cheney and the rest of the gang's various companies. Thousands, no millions know the truth about this play " WAR ON TERRORISM" , including Americans them selves.If you go to the Yahoo or google video search & try to search at that topic,you will find hundreds, most of the videos which created by Americans talks and debates about this issue. They are screaming out loud that America now has been hijacked by Bush and his MOB. But who will air that ? As long as the media is in the same line with Government then the people will still so happy with those killers.
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 28, 2006 9:31 PM
in response to:
AmGI
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Kenda is absolutely right.
AmGI for you to criticize Muslims as being stupid and doing their fare of 'stupid stuff' I won't have a problem with, but for you to blanketly criticize and put a religion on trial for its adherents actions is plain stupidity.
For example, If Islam says: "thou shall not kill" and "killing an innocent soul is like killing all of humanity.." and then a Muslim kills, clearly violating the teachings of his own religion then the blame should be the person carrying out the killing in violation of his religious teachings no matter how much he claim to be doing it "in defense" of it.
Until one can differentiate between the true essense of Islam which leads to utter peace with God, and the nefarious actions of some Muslims, I think people will be easily led astray by their right-wing media hosts like Limbaugh, Hannity, Glenn Beck, et. al.
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 28, 2006 9:43 PM
in response to:
keeptalkingfool
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>>The Palestinians were offered a state by Israel but big boy Arafat turned it down. Seems he didn't care about these people having a homeland, huh?
The "generous" offer B.S.
The neocon Propagandist are good. Really good. What Arafat was offered was a bunch of banustans (broken, non-continuous, segmented piece of land, controlled by Israeli checkpoints). Barak's "generous" offer contained no mechanism for an independent country called Palestine to have means to defend itself.
We see Israeli apologists screaming head to toe, parroting Israel's "right" to "defend" itself even when its' the aggressing party as the world witnessed its onslaught on MidEast's smallest, most democratic Arab state of Lebanon. (so much for Bush's defense of "democracy")
What about the Palestinians right to defend itself against an overwhelming Israeli military Goliath, funded and subsidized by American tax payers without their direct consent because they have AIPAC lobbyist threatening expulsion of any lawmakers in Congress who dare oppose a pro-Israeli slant?
Barak's "generous offer" denied Palestine an army, an air force, a navy? All rights guaranteed to a free state under international law.
But oh yea, never mind that. The Palestinians are backwards morons who always want to drive the "jews to the sea."
>>You'll need them once WWIII starts, Israel gets hit by a nuke and then Iran, Syria, and any of their buddies get wiped off the map.
Yes, Israel getting hit by a nuke? And from who? Pathetic Iran who Israel is doing all it can to prod its GOP poodles in Washington to pre-emptively attack just as it egged the invasion of Iraq?
There ain't one Arab country with nuke in their possession, which is despicable because if ONE Arab country did do their homework and invest in a nuke, Israel won't be acting they way it does, destroying and invading Arab nations and their hard build infrastructure at whim.
The lesson to be learned is easy: Get a nuke so to neuter Israel's 200 nukes useless. It's called nuclear deterrence and US and Russia/ India-Pak / and France-UK seem to be practicing well.
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 28, 2006 9:26 PM
in response to:
Kenda
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Well said.
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 28, 2006 9:32 PM
in response to:
andy_f90
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The amerikan settlers did the same with the Native American Indian. Only---the name used was "SAVAGE." The amerikan settlers were the true "savages," as they raped, tortured, massively destroyed---Native American Lands. They raped, molested, tortured, Native American women and children.
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 29, 2006 2:31 AM
in response to:
Bennite
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I couldn't have said it better than 2 ley.
LET EVERYONE ON THIS POST RE-READ WHAT 2LEY SAID ABOUT HANNITY, LIMBAUGH, SAVAGE, GLENN BECK (OF Censored News Network "CNN"), TUCKER, SCARBOROUGH, AND OTHER RIGHT-WING SAVAGES ABOUT HOW THEIR MEDIA DISTORTS ISLAM AND PORTRAYS AN ENTIRE RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY AS THE NEXT "COMMUNIST" THREAT.
That my friends in a nutshell is the reason why Americans are equally mislead about the distortions against a major world religion, thereby justifying war and continued fighting.
AND BY GOD, IF THESE WARMONGERS EVER EVER DARE DECLARE A WAR AGAINST ISLAM, YOU CAN BET THAT WILL BE THE END OF THE AMERICAN EMPIRE.
You can see the fruits of their war against a Muslim country like Iraq without any justification or willful lies for Israel's security and to extract its natural resources like oil.
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 29, 2006 10:43 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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Fox media, owned by Rupert Murdoch. has twisted character profiles of opposition left of center opposition parties throughout the crusader world. He is an Australian, turned amerikan, who has manipulated election results in Australia, u.s., britain. He owns a massive amount of tabloid newspapers throughout this three country region. Limbaugh ? He has served time for drug possession. Declining educational standards have been responsible for the above success in those thrre countries.
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 30, 2006 2:31 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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Hi AMGI , You mentioned that : " Don't you think Islamic Pakistan (one of the most radical Muslim states) could have launched nukes at any of several nations they felt threatened Islam? Of course they could have. But the continued fanatical interpertations of Islam led by the "rightly guided" cleric of the Muslim world put fear in the hearts and minds of the general public of the free world. " Well believe me AMGI, that I fear the acts of the FREE WORLD more than the acts of those fanatics. This is because they invade, kill and cruelly interrogate in the name of some big lie called : DEFENDING THE TRUE VALUES OF FREEDOM AND PROTECTING THE WORLD FROM THE ISLAMO FASCISTS. During the invasions against Afghanistan and Iraq, thousands of innocents have been killed and murdered in front of the eyes of the free world you are defending, thousands have been evacuated and exiled away from their homes in the name of spreading the democracy and justice !!! And now during the Lebanese crisis , no one dared to open his mouth to condemn the Israeli massacres because Israel belongs to the so called : FREE WORLD. Thousands have been sent to Guantanamo bay, exactly like cattle, without fair or just trials, God knows what kind of horrible life they have there. No one is allowed to talk, interview or ask about them. Just before two days they released a 70 years old Afghani, and he broke tears, many like him were kept there for years now, who has nothing to do with Bin Laden, what kind of free democratic world you are defending ? So the free world you are defending has the right to attack, invade, kidnap and kill anyone, to own nuclear and mass destruction weapons so no one dare to even speak against them. And we still have to deal with them as CIVILIZED people ????????????? And those Islamic countries are bunch of savages and whenever they want to nationalize their natural sources or own their self defense weapons, they must be boycotted or invaded ?? Many people from all over the world knows what's really going on,including the American them selves ( read for Paul Findley, Noam Chomsky,Stephan Walt & John Mearsheimer) , , we know that its not a war against Islam , we know its a war against the free well and the justice, we know that Muslims are not only targeted, best example is what happened with nations like Cuba & Venezuela when they nationalized their comapnies from the Americans domination. Oh by the way , two comments I want to add: 1- Although I don't totally agree with the Idea thats its a religious war, but why G.W.Bush keeps on insisting of using terms like : The crusaders,GOD BLESS AMERICA, and why does he attend classes to study the Jewish Talmud, the book that Praise the Jews as God's favorite people and claim that the other races were mixed animals-human beings ? 2- Pakistan as you stated is one of the most fanatical Islamic countries , Why do you think that the US allowed them to own nuclear weapons unlike Iran ? BECAUSE THEY ARE A US ALLY ? THATS A DOUBLE STANDARD POLICY HUH ? At least in Iran the president is elected thru a democratic process unlike Musharraf in Pakistan who gained the authority by militant force.
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Posts:
1,965
From:
Kuwait
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6/27/03
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 30, 2006 4:18 AM
in response to:
Kenda
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Hey Kenda, First let me ask a favor of you. I really and truly understand that the state of the world today and in particular the sad state of the Muslim Ummah can cause emotions. Several Muslim dominate nations are in the grips of war today, and Muslims are an unusual lot in the sense that they can be from Deerfield Michigan, but have an emotional reaction to news from the Muslim world that defies understanding to many of us in the West. So, please, I know you’re upset at the state of things in the Muslim world today, but don’t go Bennite on me. LOL! OK, now… let me see if I can answer you’re post here. Kenda: Well believe me AMGI, that I fear the acts of the FREE WORLD more than the acts of those fanatics. AmGI: Fare enough. I too am continuously taking stock of how US policies are mucking up the Middle East. I’m not sure Bush is going to make any substantial improvements in the next two years of his administration, but I can assure you that American’s are taking notice. Wars are not easy for the most part. Bush (as I have said many times before) allowed himself to loose focus on the real threat in Afghanistan. I don’t believe in conspiracy theories simply because the US government has so many checks and balances that waging war takes more that a wave of the hand from the President. The US congress gave him the authority to wage war in Iraq, and they can take it away when and if they have the will too do so. Elections in the US are fast approaching and we shall soon see the will of the American people on this issue. One election (Lieberman) has already sent a signal that the Liberal democratic regions want the Iraqi war to end. End as far as US commitment is concerned that is. But if I were on the other side of the coin, I could see where the US seems to be a bigger threat that Iran or Syria. Kenda: This is because they invade, kill and cruelly interrogate in the name of some big lie called: DEFENDING THE TRUE VALUES OF FREEDOM AND PROTECTING THE WORLD FROM THE ISLAMO FASCISTS. AmGI: There’s the “going Bennite” I was talking about. LOL! OK, let me see here? I’ll try to answer best I can through all the emotion. Invade and kill. Invade is an interesting word, isn’t it?? I mean, logically you’re right. Insertion of troops from the US into any other nation by the means of armed will and or force of arms is rightly called an “invasion.” I prefer words like “intervention” myself. But if I were an Iraqi patriot, the word “invasion” would be the one I’d use. It’s sort of like the old saying, “you say tomato, and I say tamoto.” I realize that doesn’t make you feel better or change you’re mind, but that’s really how it is, isn’t it?? I suppose to US could have just bombed the crap out of Iraq and kept it up until they screamed uncle? I personally would have waited until Saddam got comfortable and came out to do one of his speeches and BOOM!! At any rate Kenda, we are where we are today, and how we get out of it while leaving a stable and viable Iraq behind is what we need to focus on. History has plenty of time to point fingers. Now the “cruelty interrogate” thing strikes me as odd. In reality Kenda, no regime in the Muslim world treats its prisoners better than the US. Sure, I admit we had some soldiers that went too far and found some form of sick perverse pleasure in humiliating and degrading some Iraqi prisoners. But those individuals are in jail serving time for their crimes. Isn’t if strange how complainants of US custody forget these facts? Our system of laws prosecutes individuals that go beyond the norms of war. If found guilty, they go to prison. Not so in the Muslim world Kenda. I hate to drop down to that level, but since Muslims aren’t fairly portraying the whole story, I have too. Truth is, when these prisoners of war found out that a deal to “repatriate” them to jails in their own countries leaked out, almost to a man the prisoners screamed foul!!! Why?? Because they knew the treatment they’d face in their own national prisons would mean a death sentence to most of them. At least in Gitmo they had 3 hots and a cot. As far as rights? What rights? They aren’t really “prisoners of war” as we know them. This is all new to us Kenda. Fighting the militant Islamic front is going to call for new rules and new methods of handling prisoners that don’t follow the Geneva Convention. But to look at them as soldiers with rights is pushing it some don’t you think? Now that doesn’t mean torturing them. But from most everything I’ve read, this term “torture” is really not torture in the sense of beating them with steal rods and hanging them from the torture rack and burning them with hot metal rods. It’s more of a humiliation/denial treatment. And the US has reformed that. Again, US law has stepped in and set new guideline as to how these new prisoners of war can be interrogated and treated. Something the other side could careless about. Kenda: innocents have been killed and murdered in front of the eyes of the free world you are defending, AmGI: I don’t defend killing of innocent people. If they are not supporting the enemy, or providing any form of aid or comfort to the enemy, then they are non-combatants and should not be targeted. That being said, in today’s battlefield, the enemy doesn’t wear uniforms. They don’t come out and face you on the field of battle, but in civilian cloths on the streets of towns and cities. Urban warfare is their chosen battlefield because it counters the US firepower. These guys know we don’t want to use our firepower in the cities because of all the damage it would cause. But in many incidents, we have no choice but to fight them on their own terms. Because of insurgents choosing to fight an urban war, innocent people will die in bigger numbers than if we were on open terrain. That’s just the facts of war. Kenda: thousands have been evacuated and exiled away from their homes in the name of spreading the democracy and justice !!! AmGI: I don’t think the war in Iraq started as that. I mean not as I understand it. But at any rate, Bush has somehow seen this as an opportunity to bring democracy to the Middle East. I don’t personally agree with it. Democracy can’t be forced on people with guns and bombs. Democracy has to be something the people want. The US found it’s democracy by throwing out the government they felt oppressed them. It saddens me that Bush has failed as a liberator and now become the oppressor to many of the people in Iraq. But again, it’s what we do NOW that counts. I still believe there is hope in turning Iraq around and something good coming out of all this pain. Kenda: Thousands have been sent to Guantanamo bay, exactly like cattle, without fair or just trials, God knows what kind of horrible life they have there. AmGI: I don’t think it’s been “thousands” Kenda. I read somewhere that the highest number at any one time at Gitmo was like 800. Now they say it’s less than 400. But prisoners are treated like cattle. Move here, move there. Their handcuffed and restrained. That’s the way all prisoners are treated all over the world. And prison isn’t meant to be a holiday resort. They’re given a warm/cool, dry place to sleep. They’re provided the Koran, and time to pray. They get an hour exercise period. They get clean uniforms daily. Shower and shave (if they want to shave). Muslim style dietary requirements. What more should a prisoner get?? Kenda: Just before two days they released a 70 years old Afghani, and he broke tears, many like him were kept there for years now, who has nothing to do with Bin Laden, what kind of free democratic world you are defending ? AmGI: Again, I’m not in Gitmo and I don’t know all the stories there. The Red Cross is on site and has been from almost the beginning Kenda. The military is running the prison just like they run prisons in the US. I heard they have prisoners ranging from 18 to 75. Somehow you must believe a 75 year old (who would have been 69 when captured) can’t pick up a rifle and shoot? I don’t know the criteria for bringing these specific people to Gitmo, but if you watch the news, OBL and his henchmen aren’t young spring chickens either. Old men can be just as involved in terrorist activities as 18-year-olds. Kenda: So the free world you are defending has the right to attack, invade, kidnap and kill anyone, to own nuclear and mass destruction weapons so no one dare to even speak against them. And we still have to deal with them as CIVILIZED people ????????????? AmGI: I believe, as I said before, invading Iraq was wrong. We could have contained Saddam for a LONG time. But, I will say this. If a nation can be proven to be a “clear and present danger” to the national security of the US, then I believe in taking preemptive actions. That might be as small as inserting a SEAL team in and blowing something up or killing someone, or it might mean a full fledged attack. I believe the US has to have STRONG proof to justify it though. I was watching a movie last night about former Secretary of Defense McNamara. Called the “Fog of War.” He said something that really stuck with me. In talking about our involvement in Vietnam he said, “When we looked around and none of our major allies stood with us on getting involved in Vietnam, we should have really taken a hard second look at what it is we wanted to do their.” I think he has a point. Beside Britain, the US didn’t have full support from our major allies. Italy committed some troops, but I think McNamara meant “real” commitment. Something along the lines of the first Gulf War. At any rate, it’s given me something to think about. Kenda: And those Islamic countries are bunch of savages and whenever they want to nationalize their natural sources or own their self defense weapons, they must be boycotted or invaded ?? AmGI: I don’t think I used the words “savages” did I?? Radical, yes. Savages, no. What I mean about Pakistan is, they have the bomb. They’ve been involved in wars with India since acquiring the bomb. They didn’t use it but they could have. The nuclear deterrent isn’t a guarantee that Israel won’t attack Iran. Nor a guarantee that the US won’t attack North Korea. As for natural resources? Most nations that DON’T control all their oil fields, it’s because they don’t have the technical ability to do so. Take Kuwait. Just recently Kuwait has nationalized its oil industry and drilled its first oil well on its own. US companies (and a few others) were asked to pack up and leave. We did so and not a shot in anger was fired. The US oil companies do not stay in countries their not wanted. But wear they are they should at least be allowed to make a profit for all their investments. Boycotting weapons is the prerogative of the nation that wants to boycott them don’t you think? Kenda: Many people from all over the world knows what's really going on AmGI: You’re going Bennite on me again. There is no worldwide conspiracy Kenda. And the US and Israel are not planning one. Kenda: 1- Although I don't totally agree with the Idea thats its a religious war, but why G.W.Bush keeps on insisting of using terms like : The crusaders,GOD BLESS AMERICA, and why does he attend classes to study the Jewish Talmud, the book that Praise the Jews as God's favorite people and claim that the other races were mixed animals-human beings ? AmGI: GWB is a religious man. Our nation is majority Christian. We swear oaths under the name of God. This is common as it is to hear prayer 5 times a day here in Kuwait. I’m not sure what you’re point is? I don’t know of President Bush ever making a statement about animal-human beings?? If you show me the statement I could comment. Kenda: 2- Pakistan as you stated is one of the most fanatical Islamic countries , Why do you think that the US allowed them to own nuclear weapons unlike Iran ? BECAUSE THEY ARE A US ALLY ? THATS A DOUBLE STANDARD POLICY HUH ? At least in Iran the president is elected thru a democratic process unlike Musharraf in Pakistan who gained the authority by militant force. AmGI: Pakistan developed nukes just like Iran is attempting to do. But I don’t think Pakistan was a signature of the treaty Iran is violating. I’d have to look that one up. I will say I don’t agree with our alliance with Pakistan, but it seems to be working on principal. Pakistan was key in uncovering the latest attempt to attack the West and our airline industry. But in my eye, Pakistan is being run by a military junta. That doesn’t mean the US can’t have diplomatic relations, but supplying weapons and technology?? No, I don’t like that at all. I also have said if Iran wants to withdraw from the treaty they signed (which would be the smartest thing to do now) then ok by me. The US can surround Iran with Patriot anti-missile systems and shoot down anything that looks threatening.
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61
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2/4/02
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Re: One American said :
Posted:
Aug 30, 2006 5:55 AM
in response to:
AmGI
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Hi AMGI., I will write a reply to you but later, I was watching yesterday an Argentinian program and they talked about the un-fair and double standard policy of the US with the world. But this is a real big issue ? And it seems not only here in our region, I am sorry but it's not conspiracy here but facts that we watch and live everyday. About emotions and passion, well yes we are a passionated people driven my motions most of the time I agree. Thats what exactly your government felt after 9/11 after more than 3000 people killed and what put the pressure on the Congress to accept the war decree. Will write back so soon.
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