The land is there for everyone... if you claim taht you have more right to live in a piece of land than another human being, you are being inmorally inhuman.

Presonally I think Palestina and Israel deserve this war for a simple reason: they want this war... the want this war because they would rather die for a worthless piece of land, for a worthless ideology, than working together to make a better and fair world for all.

Go ahead and kill each other, the rest of the world won't miss you.

Dear Elaine,

Thank you for taking the time to post such an intitiative of peace.  It could not have come at a better time.  I would like nothing better than to be friends with you.  Therefore, please allow me to introduce myself to you.

My name is Nesreen and I am an Egyptian Muslim female, aged 29.  I was born in 1977, almost 4 years after the war with Israel over Egyptian territories.  Growing up, I was surrounded by people who supported President Anwar Sadat and his peace treaty with Israel. Everyone thought it was the wisest thing and wished that Palestine had followed suit. Of course there were the usual voices against it every time Israel commited an atrocity against Palestinians and Lebanese civillians.  And they were many, enough to cause several analysts to question themselves, so it was the WISE thing to do but was it the RIGHT thing?

I am glad to sense that you feel somwhat uneasy about the attacks on Lebanon. Perhaps you haven't said that explicitly, but allow me to fanatasize that you do. I have, in another thread, mentioned how this particular attack on Lebanon had a very personal effect on me. My sister was caught up in it, alone with her two kids (9 & 5).  I have experienced first hand what it feels like to see an airport being blown up and know that she is in the very building shown on tv next to the airport.  I have experienced first hand what it feels like to not know what has become of her or whether or not she is alive or not.  When I heard on the news that there were people who were bombed by Israel and that they were unable to heal their burning wounds  cus Israel had also (quite conveniantly) bombed the hospital as well, I immediately thought this could be my sister or my niece or nephew.  

With every bomb explosion heard on Al Jazeera TV or Al Arabiya, my heart was literally shattered inside to know that my sister is hearing those bombs up close and personal.  Somehow, empathy can only take u so far.  It is never quite the same when it IS the real deal.  I have learnt that now, the hard way.  

This is a time for us to wake up, Elaine.  I can very easily sit here and comfortably say "OH those damn Israelis, they don't care about peace nor about innocent civillians!" and u can easily say "Oh..those bloody Hezbollah..they are the REASON why Israel is bombing Lebanese PEOPLE mostly women and children..when will they stop making us do that??!!"   (And for the record, with all those killings, how many Hezbollah members did they manage to kill???)

Let us just do that, let us just go ahead and put the blame on the moon, and meanwhile, all those people who die or burn to death are held in our throats, we will be questioned for them, u can bet on it.  God is just and merciful and one soul killed in His eyes is just the same as 6,000,000.  U can be sure, there will be a price to pay, and we will pay it for shutting our eyes to the truth and pretending it was not our fault.

I can only pray for the scared souls in Lebanon who have no bomb shelters to turn to.  I can only pray for all those who died horribly while the whole world was silent. 

I hope you and your family are safe and well, Elaine.  I really do.  I can understand what type of fear u r living in now.  May God give u safety and tranquility and the guidance to do what is right. 

hi Elaine, perhaps you will try to learn outside of what you have been taught:

In February and March of 2001 I went to the Palestinian territories as a freelance reporter, traveling alone throughout Gaza and the West Bank. I saw tragedy and devastation far beyond what was being reported in the American media; I saw communities destroyed, ancient orchards razed, croplands plowed under. I saw children who had been shot in the stomach, in the back, in the head. I still see them.

I saw people convulsing and writhing in pain from a mysterious poison gas that had been lobbed at them; they said it felt like there were knives in their stomach.³ I talked to men who had been tortured.⁴

I watched as a mother wept for her small son, and I took pictures of his spilled blood. I watched a son grieve for his mother, killed on her way home from the market on a day that I was told was the Muslim equivalent of the day before Christmas, or Passover, and I thought of my own son, the same age.

I listened to old people who described the start of this holocaust – over fifty years ago, at the end of an earlier one. They described what it was like when three-quarters of your entire population is ethnically cleansed from their homes and land, children dying along the roadside while aircraft shell the fleeing families. They told of dozens of massacres of entire villages, and I’ve since read accounts by Israeli soldiers, published in Israeli publications, of how they raped the women, and then killed them, of how they used sticks to crush the skulls of children.⁵ I discovered the message sent by Menachem Begin, later elected Israeli prime minister, to troops following the massacre of Palestinians in one village, Deir Yassin:

“Accept my congratulations on this splendid act of conquest. Convey my regards to all the commanders and soldiers. We shake your hands. We are all proud of the excellent leadership and the fighting spirit in this great attack...Tell the soldiers: you have made history in Israel with your attack and your conquest. Continue this until victory. As in Deir Yassin, so everywhere, we will attack and smite the enemy. God, God, Thou has chosen us for conquest.” ⁶

3. For more information about the nerve gas being used, see Brooks, James, “The Israeli Poison Gas Attacks: A preliminary investigation”, Media Monitors Network, January 8, 2003, http://www.mediamonitors.net/jamesbrooks2.html

4. There are numerous human rights reports on Israeli torture, see for example, “Israel Increases Its Use of Torture Practices Among Palestinian Prisoners”, A Report Issued by the Palestinian Prisoner Society, June 21, 2002, http://www.ppsmo.org/e-website/Reports/Israeli%20Tourture%20July%202002.htm

5. Davar, June 9, 1979: Testimony of an Israeli soldier who participated in the massacre at al Duwayma Village on Oct. 29, 1948: “[they] killed between 80 to 100 Arabs, women and children. To kill the children they fractured their heads with sticks. There was not one house without corpses. The men and women of the villages were pushed into houses without food or water. Then the saboteurs came to dynamite the houses. One commander ordered a soldier to bring two women into a house he was about to blow up ... Another soldier prided himself upon having raped an Arab woman before shooting her to death. Another Arab woman with her newborn baby was made to clean the place for a couple of days, and then they shot her and the baby. Educated and welll-mannered commanders who were considered “good guys”... became base murderers, and this not in the storm of battle, but as a method of expulsion and extermination. The fewer the Arabs who remained, the better.” For additional information on Israel’s beginnings: Masalha, Nur, Expulsion of the Palestinians: The Concept of “Transfer” in Zionist Political Thought, 1882-1948, The Institute for Palestine Studies: Washington D.C., 1992.

6. Ball, George W. and Douglas B. Ball, The Passionate Attachment: America’s Involvement with Israel, 1947 to the Present, W. W. Norton & Company: New York, 1992, p. 29.

i

There has been far too much suffering in that area, it plain meaningless that a peaceful solution can not be found.   

Thanks for the post.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. As an American this might not be my time to speak, but I do want to say one thing.

Maybe this generation is the best hope for the future. Now that we are all connected by the internet, is it possible that new and innovative solutions can come about to solve these problems in peace? I hope so.

Let's hope that all of us will learn that there is only ONE mankind and ONE earth! The modern media gave us a treasure: connectedness.

DD

Since the U.S. 'GIVES' nearly 3 billion  u.s. dollars to support, dictate, and condone and sanction the brutality of Israel's 'want-to-be' fascist regime, I do not accept your propaganda and rhetorical comments.

Let this war last---until Israel is no more.

I do not condone violence, but, I do understand the plight of  a 'true' Moslem believer to protect and defend their sacred land from zionist intrusion.

Hey Elaine,

Thanks for sharing your views and trying to build bridges of communication.  It is appreciated.  Even if people do not agree, it is always better to disagree with words rather then with arms (so get out of this topic bennite).

I have to be quick here cause I don't have much time, so I will sum my views up in 2 simple points.  I have mainly 2 beefs with Israel wich are:

- the arrogance it shows to the international community: Israel is guilty of non compliance with MORE UN resolutions then Iraq ever was.  The US bombed Iraq to the ground for that.  For Israel, they just veto resolution after resolution after resolution.  And IF the resolutions get through for some reason, Israel doesn't care the slightest bit about it.

- the excessive use of force: face it, you guys are trying to kill flies with bombs.  You don't kill a fly with a bomb or rocket, you kill it with a piece of paper.  You say yourself that this started out with some hizbollah culprits who did some stuff to Israeli soldiers (no matter what it was) and that this whole conflict you are in now is the result.  Look up the ratio of civilian causulties at palestinian/lebanese side and compare that to the Israeli civilian casualties and tell me if that is balanced and within proportion.

Look up the infrastructure that got destroyed inside Israel and then look at Lebanon and Palestine and tell me if that is balanced and within proportion.

Then look up the term "collective punishment" in the geneva conventions and the general rules of war, and tell me if Israel is acting according to those rules.

That's mainly it. 

Take care,

MeAgain

Hi spowers_01

"comparing apples and oranges" = "Hizbullah and Israel"...You are so right!  Hizbullah fighters armed with automatic rifles, RPGs, Cavlar, Tanks, Hellicopters, Missiles, Fighter Jets and Nuclear Weapons.  Oops, sorrry, my mistake.  Thats the Israeli Soldier. So what does Hizbullah have?  Also they fight for different reasons too. Hizbullah fighting for occupation of land and to oppres.... Oops, I seem to be wrong there too...Thats Israel.  So what is Hizbullah fighting for?  Seems to me that Lebenon and Palastine can easily be wiped out and they know it and yet they still fight?  It seems to me that Hizbullah fighters are "Freedom Fighters" but are being labled as "Terrorists" and that Israel had invaded Palastine and are the real "Terrorists", terrorising their neighbours...Gross Propoganda?  This I'm not wrong about!

Israel can win every "BATTLE" but it wont end the "WAR".  The only way for the "WAR" to end is if Israel leaves!  We can go blue in our faces yacking away our points and slandering each side till "the cows come home", but this wont solve anything, will it?  Israel MUST go! It's the only Peaceful Solution!

Although, there is another option.  The Palastinians live under the boot of the Israeli government but we both know they would rather die than do that, so why not go ahead, wipe them out quickly, "brutally, and swiftly"(as you put it) like the Americans did to the Native Indians, get it over with, and then Israel can live in peace and freedom, like America.  What u say? Is'nt this the only option Israel has to exist peacefully?  Seems this way to me...

muslims didn't do anything coz we didn't attack any nation into ruin....just like the us and israel did....is that what you mean...

Jamna, you just tried to justify every act extremist muslims commit by saying that they don't level entire nations into ruin.  You are part of the problem.  They would if they had the power to, but they don't.  Your lack of concern enables the extreme right and continues the violence.

We do criticize our government in America by the way. 

I doubt you would have the nerve to do the same to extremists in your country

Nope....I didn't justify their acts. What make you think the extremist are not criticised in muslim countries??? There are prosecuted, jailed, tortured, and killed...in most muslim countries.

Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Saudi, Pakistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc...just take a look at who are the inhibitants of the prisons in these countries....overwhelmingly those person you detest as muslim extremists.

My friend ...This world is surely much bigger than the United State of America. Don't pretend to be all-knowing!!!

Back to conflict in ME. Israel and US don't seem to be interested in having a solution. They are just interested in getting Hamas and Hizbullah wiped out. There are things that Hamas and Hisbullah do that I support and there are things that I don't. The same goes to US. But I have the following questions:

1) Can Hamas and Hizbullah be wiped out entirely? They could be weakened, may be...but not wiped out, I think. In 1948, Russians thought they had wiped out the entire Chechen populations...but as we all could see, the Beslan things keep coming.

2) Even if Hamas and Hizbullah are totally out rooted, will peace prevail in ME? The fact is Hizbullah and Hamas were founded in 1982 and 1985, respectively. What hapened before that? There were chaos in ME even before the two were born. Thus, Hizbullah and Hamas were not the root of the problems in the region, but rather the fruit of the wrong policies of the world's power in the region. US and Israel are shooting at wrong birds.

The problem is, violence doesn't undo violence. They just multiply the result...I believe, in any conflict, those who have more power and strength are more responsible to make the difference, because the have more resources and options...not those at the receiveing ends.

The US and Israel collect taxes to kill civilians....Hizbullah and Hamas don't. That makes BIG different.

The fact remains that not a single cent of my money has been used to killed innocence. I'm proud of that fact.

On the other hands, American and Israelis tax payers' money has been used to kill thousands of innocent lives. I would live in shame if I were American or Israeli.

If speaking against injustice is deemed being terrorist, then let it be. Much better than paying tax to mass murderers like Bush & gangs.

hmmm...when u refer to "Bad Ones", I can only immagine that u refer to the suicide bombers.  when u refer to the "Bunch", I can only immagine that u refer to the Muslims.

Answer me this.  What are you doing to the "Bad Ones" in your "Bunch"?  A Rocket is as Deadly as a suicide bomber, except that a Suicide Bomber is motivated by personal and in 99.999% cases, Loss of all loved ones AND whats even more astonishing, he does not have and ties with any military army.  A Bomber sits 1000s of km away, with his finger on a button and is ordered by a General.  I cannot reason with a man who has lost all sense of reason (Suicide Bomber), Cant you reason with you leaders??? Or have they lost all sense of reason, or maybe, you don't really care enough to stop them?

A Rocket is targeted at its target, and a suicide bomber targets his target. 

Dear All,

I'm Antonio from Italy. Forgive me for my English. I'll try to express myself the best that i can.

This is what we see from here: we see innocent people dying on both sides. 

Besides the concept of who does what and who started the aggression first.. the fact is that "hate" is ruling this conflict.

Someone has lost a son, someone has lost a mother... someone has lost a wife or a sister....

Dear Meduri,

Ur words are true.  It made me wonder, could the words of this man, uttered in November, 1977, still be true to THIS DAY July, 2006??????

"Any life that is lost in war is a human life be it that of an Arab or an Israeli. A wife who becomes a widow is a human being entitled to a happy family life, whether she be an Arab or an Israeli.  Innocent children who are deprived of the care and compassion of their parents are ours. They are ours, be they living on Arab or Israeli land.  They command our full responsibility to afford them a comfortable life today and tomorrow."

"After long thinking, I was convinced that the obligation of responsibility before God and before the people make it incumbent upon me that I should go to the far corners of the world, even to Jerusalem with all the facts surging in me, then I would let you decide for yourselves....

Ladies and gentlemen, there are moments in the lives of nations and peoples when it is incumbent upon those known for their wisdom and clarity of vision to survey the problem, with all its complexities and vain memories, in a bold drive towards new horizons."

"How can we achieve permanent peace based on justice? Well, I have come to you carrying my clear and frank answer to this big question, so that the people in Israel as well as the entire world may hear it....

• The first fact is that no one can build his happiness at the expense of the misery of others.

• An interim peace between Egypt and Israel, or between any Arab confrontation state and Israel, will not bring permanent peace based on justice in the entire region.  Rather, even if peace between all the confrontation states and Israel were achieved in the absence of a just solution of the Palestinian problem, never will there be that durable and just peace upon which the entire world insists."

"Ladies and gentlemen, to tell you the truth, peace cannot be worth its name unless it is based on justice and not on the occupation of the land of others. It would not be right for you to demand for yourselves what you deny to others. With all frankness and in the spirit that has prompted me to come to you today, I tell you you have to give up once and for all the dreams of conquest and give up the belief that force is the best method for dealing with the Arabs."

"Perhaps the example taken and experienced, taken from ancient and modern history, teaches that missiles, warships and nuclear weapons cannot establish security. Instead they destroy what peace and security build."

"You, sorrowing mother, you, widowed wife, you, the son who lost a brother or a father, all the victims of wars, fill the air and space with recitals of peace, fill bosoms and hearts with the aspirations of peace. Make a reality that blossoms and lives. Make hope a code of conduct and endeavor."

"It is not my battle alone. Nor is it the battle of the leadership in Israel alone. It is the battle of all and every citizen in all our territories, whose right it is to live in peace. It is the commitment of conscience and responsibility in the hearts of millions."

*Excerpts from President Anwar Sadat's speech to the Israeli Kinesset, 1977.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/sadat_speech.html

....it's the chain of the hate.

The real matter is: how people (palestinians and jewish) could forget... or forgive...

The pain for what has been happening for years now is to strong for everybody.

I guess nobody would like this war to go on.. at the same time there would always be a mother, a son, a wife, a brother who will never forget and will seek for veangeance.

...how it can be stopped?

Greetings / Salaams,

I wonder how many of you are not directly involved in the Middle East Conflicts.  I am not and as a result, emotions don't dictate my response to this thread and offers some objectiveness.  "Ignorance is Bliss!"

The age of communication was predicted a long, long time ago.  If anyone is really interested in this fact, "Study" the contents and its meanings of the Koran.  In saying this, the internet has not only opened up a huge tool for the propaganda and bias views of the privileged, BUT has also given the subjects access to knowledge and understanding and most importantly, the historical facts of the political arena in the Middle East.  "Read, in the name of you Lord, who created man from a cloth of blood"...Iqra!

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FH18Ak02.html

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/sides.html

These are just two of a wealth of information available to you. They come from both sides. So Please, I urge you to research for your own sakes!

I am a South African who is still young enough to live through the long guilt of realising that I was old enough to understand the wrongful and injustice of our leaders and the ones whom we had entrusted to guide us towards living a peaceful, productive existence.  It was the people / subjects that had fought, in a peaceful manner, by educating themselves and having the patience and understanding that they needed to educate and condition them-selves in-order to educate and condition their leaders.  We in South Africa hurt every time we see the senseless murder of innocent people, by the hands of brutal and ingnorant leaders.  As Mr. Mandella said some YEARS ago about Mr. Bush, He "is a man of very little foresight".  Don't let this go on any longer!

If this knowledge leads you to enlightenment, then do not ignore it since you will be hurting yourself and your fellow brothers.

Read.  Recherche.  Investigación.  Forschung

Investigue en el nombre de Dios.

Préparer au nom de Dieu.

Forschen Sie im Namen von Gott

Thanks, Shukran.

Elaine,

please don't pretend to be confused. you can't occupy people's land and dream for peace. you can't imprison thousands lives and expect their family to stay quiet.

you can't create a nation only for certain race, and expect other races to graciously accept it. hatred does't come from thin air and it does't die from the blast of bombs.

solution - 1947 border, release prisoners, and israel for all, incuding million of refugees. a just peace or just a stupid peace. choose either one...

Hello, unfortunately we are all sadden by the increasing massacres in the Middle East. Given the ongoing Israeli aggression, the international community is concerned to the point to be ready to intervene by international peace keeping forces. I admire the courage of the Lebanese and the other Mideasterners who live permenantly under the bombings. As for me, I won't support an hour of the hell the people are experiencing in the occupied Afghanistan, Iraq and now the atacked Lebanon.  

For some political observers the Israeli military offensive is a way to war on Iran.

I prefer to start from the beginning and ask the question why the Israeli founded themselves in the this situation. I found an answer in the Bible and would like to post it.

"8Jerusalem's horrible sins

   have made the city a joke.

   Those who once admired her

   now hate her instead--

   she has been disgraced;

   she groans and turns away.

    9Her sins had made her filthy,

   but she wasn't worried

   about what could happen.

   And when Jerusalem fell,

   it was so tragic.

   No one gave her comfort

   when she cried out,

   "Help! I'm in trouble, LORD!

   The enemy has won."

Lamentations 1 : 8-9

1The LORD said to the people of Israel:

   If a divorced woman marries,

   can her first husband

   ever marry her again?

   No, because this

   would pollute the land.

   But you have more gods

   than a prostitute has lovers.

   Why should I take you back?

    2Just try to find one hilltop

   where you haven't gone

   to worship other gods

   by having sex. You sat beside the road

   like a robber in ambush,

   except you offered yourself

   to every passerby.

   Your sins of unfaithfulness

   have polluted the land.

    3So I, the LORD, refused

   to let the spring rains fall.

   But just like a prostitute,

   you still have no shame

   for what you have done.

    4You call me your father

   or your long-lost friend;

    5you beg me to stop being angry,

   but you won't stop sinning. "

Jeremiah 3 : 1-4

You see that everything is precise in the God's economy. It happens what is to happen and this had been predicted more than 2000 years ago. The solution is the repentence, however God knew and knows that the Israelis "won't stop sinning". Then the prophecies will go on realizing.

 it is a nice step...

but ask yourself , why you in palestine , you father from europe your mom from i donno where, and now palestiune your home right ,
ask yourself why we are terrorist as you sai d, ask youself why there is les sthan 30 victimes in isreal and the lebanese are terrorist ...
and they dont want attack the civils but suddenly they choose the traget to be killed, right
youo have a nice startyegy , and the weak arabs and small minds will debate anyway i will never talk a lot coz you dont deserve

think abt our strategy

you created air crats that can take pics

we created aircrafts that can creat pics and support rockets

go and think abt the hell that you will face is sooner or later

with your f-16 you will kill all lebanese no pro

but be sure that you will never kill hizbollah

a nice point right ...

you will suffer

we will win and win and win

Oh cry me a river Elaine.  Not that you will be reading this...your letter  is obviously a copy and paste job.. You might fool some poor simpletons on here..but you dont fool me. The Palestine and Lebanon agression by Israel, is nothing more than a Israeli land grab. Big deal Lebanon captured a few soldiers from Israel. What about the thousands of Palestine prisioners and Lebanese prisioners Israel got? About 40,000 of our citizens are trapped in Lebanon right this moment.. Quite a few have been killed by  Israeli bombs. They went to visit relatives, some are tourists.  By the way..the bombs that are landing on our People there are compliments of the u.s. Government. They supply Israel to the tune of billions of $$$ a year to do there dirty work. Both u.s. and Israel are equally guilty.

As I said, I dont expect you to reply Elaine, You probally dont even exist, just someone copy and paste.

To everyone,

I am astounded at the number of replies I have received to this message and I thank you all from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to read and reply - I honour and respect all of you - even those who criticize me and hate me.

Cyberer, Yes, I did read your post and I assure you that I am real, I am flesh and blood and have real feelings just like you. I am so sorry that your hatred for me runs so deep that you cannot let go of the past and try to make life better for all of us.

I am not a politician and I don't have a solution for the Arab-Israeli conflict in general and this conflict in general. The ONLY thing I do have is my hand which is outstretched in peace and the hope in my heart that someone will take the first step and start a normal dialogue in order to stop this senseless killing.

Cyberer, will you accept my hand and try to talk civilly to me? I don't hate you, you are probably as frustrated as I am with this situation. Can we try to find some common ground on which we can stand and talk to each other without baggage? I realize that it is almost impossible to erase years of hate but we have to start SOMEWHERE....can we do it here? If our leaders won't, then at least we can try......

Can you look at me as a human woman and not as the embodiment of evil and imperialism that you think I am?

Are you willing to try?

Thanks, that was educational – short and interesting.

You just abreviated into what my MiddleEastern History professor took a year to explain. OK maybe his was more in depth, but yours was very good.

IB

I don't believe you know any Americans who say that. Try pulling the other one.

IB

To everyone,

I am astounded at the number of replies I have received to this message and I thank you all from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to read and reply - I honour and respect all of you - even those who criticize me and hate me.

Cyberer, Yes, I did read your post and I assure you that I am real, I am flesh and blood and have real feelings just like you. I am so sorry that your hatred for me runs so deep that you cannot let go of the past and try to make life better for all of us.

I am not a politician and I don't have a solution for the Arab-Israeli conflict in general and this conflict in general. The ONLY thing I do have is my hand which is outstretched in peace and the hope in my heart that someone will take the first step and start a normal dialogue in order to stop this senseless killing.

Cyberer, will you accept my hand and try to talk civilly to me? I don't hate you, you are probably as frustrated as I am with this situation. Can we try to find some common ground on which we can stand and talk to each other without baggage? I realize that it is almost impossible to erase years of hate but we have to start SOMEWHERE....can we do it here? If our leaders won't, then at least we can try......

Can you look at me as a human woman and not as the embodiment of evil and imperialism that you think I am?

Are you willing to try?

Dear Elainesc,

Hi friends, I understand your frustration and anger toward the Palestinian people and others your leaders robbed and currently killing, torturing, raping, kidnapping, and degrating.  I also feels for your fears of terrorism as retaliation against your leaders acts of evil such as  torture, robbery, and kidnapping the Palesitnian people and the Lenbonese people.

I understand you are living under stolen lands and resources and under constant of poor men's weapon against your livelyhood.

I don't harbor any hatred against you, and I understand your situation.  I don't think there is anything that you can do in a big way.  The only thing you can do now is leave Israel and come understand that robbery and act of torture, kidnapping the people  you try to rob, bombing your victim's town and babies and mom and dad only because you need money is wrong and evil and it is also self destructive.

The Lebonese arm killing two Iraelis hitmans and exterminate a few of them is also benefit people like you too.  It is not a threat to you , it is a public service for people in your situation.  Because if the Lebonese people can't attack you and kidnap your hitman to swap with the Lebonese people you are torturing in you prison make you more likely commit more crimes.

Please take a bag and leave the war zone and the stolen land and resource before you kill yourself.

I am not a Muslim just human being that does want to see people like you die for any criminals element within Israelis organization long history of murder and robbery activities.

Elaine..what we say on her makes absolutely no difference to effect the mid east situation. We could sit here and rant and rave, pound our fingers silly on the keys, it wont effect anything. Bush and Israel have an agenda to follow, simple as that.  That agenda is..on the u.s. part to control the world like Hitler tryed to do. The Israeli agenda is to grab as much land as possible to make a greater Israel. Im not muslim or jewish or Arab. I personally have nothing to gain. But if everyone in the world just turns a blind eye and dont speak up....(but you know all about that part from ww2 history.) then we are just as guilty as the ones doing the crime. If I had my way....maybe this wont sit well with some..but..Israel should go back to the 1947 or 1948 boundry and give Palestine there own state. IF, Israel is at all sincere in wanting peace, which I dont believe they are. They could have u.n. forces guarding the borders of Israel.. the u.n. would settle whatever problem that may happen..then Israel would have no need to bomb anyone. But I honestly dont think Israel would go for that. They want problems ,so they can invade Palestine or Lebanon and steal a bit more land.

Elaine..

Can you tell me something? When Israel expands or starts a new settlement in Palestine they say it is for security reasons... What the heck does putting jewish settlers in an area surrounded by Palestinians have to do with security? Look on any map...the number of jewish settlements in Palestine is unvelieavable. sure looks like a land grab to me.

Salaams,

I would like to if there are any historians (including 2BFree4Ever) that can provide comparisons between - what the life of the Jews and Christians were under the rule of the Muslims - and - NOW!

From my understanding, before the first Crusades ("to liberate the Holy Lands" with enough blood to flood to the knees on the streets) and during the time of the Ottomans rule, there was piece and harmony with Mosques and Churches and Temples side-by-side in Philistine.  If any1 has "CREDIBLE" proof of me being wrong, please provide it "CREDIBLE".  I am and was always interested in the history of the Ottoman Empire and the History of Islam.  But this is never thought in any Circularized Schools.  This history is just as, if not, more relevant than learning about the Romans or the Greeks or the Christopher Columbus...This Empire was in existence less than a CENTURY ago...and due to it being conquered and the Empire being divided by the "Allied Nations" as Booty(Spoils of War), we (the world) have been thrown into this huge storm.  p.s.: Thank you "ALLIED NATIONS AND UNITED NATIONS"

There is only one way this HUGE STORM can be tamed!  And that is a HUBE WAR or a HUGE MIGRATION.  America was offering free land and is the land of the "Free", Why steel some1 else’s land when there was land offered by America?  Well that was two hundred years ago.  More recently, why did America support the Jews annexure of the Palestinians Land and then pay/donate Billions of Dollars to Israel so it can survive, when it can save its money, and offer the Jews Refugee Status or even citizenship?  America loves Israel or its people.  Well they love something so much that they spend Billions on it or them.  What is it? People or the Land?  Well if America is worried about piece and stability in the region....then take your beloved Jews to your home and give back to the Palestinians the home that you helped steel and destroy and compensate them for the +-60years of rent/occupation, actually, its the UN that set the boundaries and governments. Right?  Well who ever...

What will this mean?  Well if I am correct, and NO NATION in the world ever gets involved in it, and the question I asked earlier (Jews and Christians under Islamic Rule) is as I would expect....

THEN THAT IS THE END OF THAT.

Offer what is yours and not what belongs to another!

As Leila Khalid (Palistinian Hi-Jacker) who is visiting South Africa demands "Give us back our homes and we will give you peace".

W-Salaams

Hi 2BFree4Ever,

Firstly, let me correct myself, when I said the land devided by the "Allied Forces" and "United Nations", I was mistaken.  This was done by the "Triple Entente" and "European Allies".

Yes you are most correct in identifying the BIG decision as being the ultimate misfortune of the Ottomans.  Take into account the non-delivery of the Navy Battle Ships by the British and the subsequent sale of the two ships (Goeben and Breslau) by the Germans with this suggesting that the Brits did'nt want the Turks to have the upper hand on the Greeks at the time could only mean that the Brittish were'nt acting on the best interests and even agains the Ottomans.  It coul also be said that it had been an unavoidable decision since the newly accuired Ottoman ships (Goeben and Breslau) from the Germans were used to attack Russia under the pretences of being on orders from the Ottomans and with the Ottoman's flag at mast, and which had previously deceived the British Navy using another nations flag to escape confrontation.  The same "German Rear-Admiral Wilhelm Souchon" was in command at the time of the attack on Russia.  This could have, justifyably, given the "Triple Entente" the motive to strike Ottomans first...but this is another issue.....and another era.  I hope deviation from the topic on hand does'nt annoy u.

Back to the world's current mess, you have'nt factually sattisfied my curiosity fully as to the pliet of the different religious nations under the rule of the muslims in Jeruselem or Palistien, but I would take your response as agreeing with my knowledge that there was "mostly" peace and harmony in the region, as a whole, before, between and after many Crusades when the land was under the rule of the muslims.  If you look at the history of the "Evil State" (as Bush Devinely call them) Iran, you will be surprised to discover that they are one of the most democratic nations and had even offered its collonies to the International Governing "UN" to oversee the proper self-rule of the nations.  So even in modern times after all the history, muslim states will not oppress another unless pravoked, it is a fundamental teaching of our religion and beliefs and something im sure i can speak on behalf of majority muslims.

What will happen if this BIG MIGRATION idea proposed earlier were to take effect and Israel be desolved and Palastine were to be re-instated?  Do you think there would be peace instilled by the muslim rule?

My oppinion on this is that I believe that there would be peace!  The reason?  Well firstly, simply because there is only one issue on the agender of the Muslim Intifada and Jihaad.  That is the wrongfull occupation of Soveriegn Lands (Iraq / Afganistan / Keshmir/....).  There are Jews living in other muslim Nations in alot more peace and justice than the Palastinians living in their own home land under the Israeli government.  Secondly, I as a muslim will never support/condone/applaud it.  There is nothing the muslim nations or the ullamah can do to stop Israel, but they can stop a muslim nation from committing it.  America and the West does not seem to be doing anything to stop Israel and cannot stop them. No one can.  And Lastly.......HISTORY PROVES IT!!!

We have been through Appartheid in South Africa and we (Blacks, Whites, Indians, Muslims, Christians, Jews,....) all live in harmony as a multi cultural nation under one banner.  Alot of Whites had Migrated out of fear of oppression but those that stayed behind never were oppressed.  Alot that had left had returned.  We are still trying to restore the balance of power and economies and standards of living, but WE ARE LIVING and not suffering.

I belive it can be done, and if not....wel to hell with it....wipe each other out and get it over with quickly.

Let me provide a link to something that helps the point of the muslim culture being non-agressive to the Jewish Culture - http://www.sephardicstudies.org/ottoman_salonica.html

Due to the atrocities committed by Hitler in WWII, the world felt sorry for the Jews and established Israel.  Ever since there have been people that have felt they have been wronged.  When Islamic extremists attacked other nations other than Israel, the world turned against Muslims.  It is sad but it all started with Hitler - if it were not for him Israel would not exist.  Hence Iran's leader is saying the holocaust did not happen to try to undo history.

"I'm not Arab, I'm a black American who is tired of people from Europe thinking they can just take land from people. Go back to Europe where you are from. "

very funny - what did Europeans do to North American Indians? 

We don't feel like we own Iraq and the oil. If we did (1) Saddam would be tried in a US court not an Iraqi one. (I know some of you will say the Iraqi judges are just US puppets; however, we don't have to have puppets. We'd just do it ourselves like we did during the Nazi war trials or the Panama invasion. We're a huge nation we could bring him here if we really wanted to bother with it.) (2) Gas prices in the US are skyrocketing still. If we owned the oil they'd go down. (I know some will say it's Bush and his oil business family doing this, but he's an elected leader. If he could make gas $1.00 a gallon he'd probably be president for the next 50 years. He has way more to gain by using his power in the oil industry to lower prices than raise them. His family is already filthy rich off oil a couple of million dollars doesn't mean crap to them. Ruling the US for an indefinite period of time because everyone with a Tahoe over here can actually drive more than 5 miles a day again... Even the democrats would vote for him. Hell probably Muslim extremist over here with SUV's would vote for him.) The US govt in Iraq is looking out for it's own interests. Why is everyone so surprised our govt is just as self serving as every other govt on the planet. Arab nations are looking out for themselves, that's not a crime. Iran is developing nuclear weapons right now....why, self interest. So is North Korea. China is expanding its army. Why, it's emerging more and more as an economic leader; therefore, it has more valuable resources to protect and is attracting more international attention. We are one of the only countries where the world gets its panties in a wad over us benefiting ourselves. We made Saddam when he benefited us, and when he became a detriment we took him down...simple as that. We don't own Iraq, but we make sure whoever does isn't our enemy. ( 2Bfree4ever.)

I agree u.s. is looking after there own interests as they try to build an empire. That is the whole reason for the Iraq war..looking after there own interests..WMD and getting rid of Saddam was just an excuse to get in Iraq and make sure the u.s. got a supply of oil. Isnt that called stealing the resources of another country? The u.s. is trying hard to find a reason to attack Iran also..That is the reason they dont want Iran getting nukes..It would spoil the theives plans to steal Iran oil to.  The u.s. have to follow a course of playing the good guy, because they know they need some other countrys support  to invade countrys like Iraq.. The u.s. could never occupy Iraq alone. If they were in Iraq alone..Iran and Syria may jump in and help Iraqis. As for the Saddam trial, sure they try him in Iraq, the u.s. hope to make the trial look at least a bit credible to the Iraq and world. But in Iraq the u.s. got enough stoolies planted in the Iraq Govt. to carry out there wishes. Same as the judges, the other judge was letting Saddam talk to much..he might have told things about past deals between u.s. and Saddam that may prove embarrasing for the u.s. That is also the reason for not having the trial in the Hague....The u.s. is scared things may come out at the trial.

Selam.

As a victim of war all I can say is that may all human being live in peace and tranquility.I guess it would have been more effective and intresting if you could talk and discuss directly with the victims from the otherside.Unfortunately,to the best of my knowledge we don't have them here atleast for now.

You are at better position as you can manage to to get connceted to the world and share your feeling with globe and perhaps have a place to flee.I don't think that the other side could manage to utter as they are expriencing e very dynamic risky enviroment.Yes, they are being told to leave the "Whole City/village?" but once they leave........and no bridge,every moving automible is subjected target , the hospitals, worshipping sites all are equally targted. Civilians shouldn't pay the price , unfortunately they are.It is~ 12 to ~200 civilian.Let us pray that they could manage to survive and get all the basic necessities as it is only after taht they can utter.

Peace to all

Israeli girls write messages on a shell at a heavy artillery position near Kiryat Shmona, in northern Israel, next to the Lebanese border, Monday, July 17, 2006.(AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner)

Were this Kids were Hizbollah too?

Why do they desserve such barbaric action and burned to peaces?

This reminds me  what a writer who studied and lived the mentality of Israeli said commenting on the massacre.They brought up with hatred , and racisn sonce their childhood till they are convinced that once get matured they "should rid off the this Arabs .." and the very same person become a sodier and a pilot of f-16 and it seems normal for them and ofcourse they see as a hero.

Selam to all being.

To Elaine

assalamu 3alikum

I can write pages and pages in response to what u said, but i'll find it sufficient to these few things:

as long as u look at things from one side and with one eye, u can never achieve whatever u intend to achieve.

second, as long as u look at us as develish and terrorists then it is useless to have any debate with you.

third, if u really have good intentions and u see a problem, then i guess your problem is not with us first, but with your goverment, which is practicing all acts of state terrorism against unarmed civillians and children and women, if u can't see the ugliness ur government is inflicting on our people and still see us terrorists and devils, then why should we talk to you.

Once u recognize that we are resistance forces and not terrorists, then we can talk

You may try to give the impression that you side with the victims with pictures like this, but you do not. You side with hate, anger and blame – feeding the conflict; creating more victims.

There is not doubt in my heart that this is what you are doing.

I was not sure whether you are aware of this your self – I believe you are.

You may try to give the impression that you side with the victims with pictures like this, but you do not. You side with hate, anger and blame – feeding the conflict; creating more victims.

There is not doubt in my heart that this is what you are doing.

I was not sure whether you are aware of this your self – I believe you are.

PD,

You may try to give the impression that you side with the victims with pictures like this, but you do not. You side with hate, anger and blame – feeding the conflict; creating more victims.

There is not doubt in my heart that this is what you are doing.

I was not sure whether you are aware of this your self – I believe you are.

/Jhawk

May god bless us all with knowledge.

How about instead of Us & Them two state solution. Why not have a single democratic state with Muslims, Christians and Jews living together peacefully as before current 'Israel' was created.

2 will always fight. 1 is undivided.

Not Me but We...

this is a reply to Elaine,

first of all peace... real peace...

i dint have much time to read all your message thats why my reply is short... please i would love to communicate with you...

my reply is the following...

why are you an israeli?? do you know what islam is??? have you ever read the qur an???

if you were to know how all of this will end...

do you care about the Truth in all of this?? or is israel more important to you...

do you believe in God??

abdullahbinsalah@gmail.com

P E A C E

Bring back the Khaleefatian!!!

Ataturk is the biggest disaster the Ummah of Rasoolullah (s.a.w) has ever faced.  The way I sea it, he sold out the world to save a piece of land for himself, and his people, not the Ummah!

Now we have disunity among the Muslims of the world, and the way I see it, as I said before, if Israel Government is not dissolved and the land not returned to the Palestinian and the Muslim rule, then the only other option is war, and may God have mercy on the Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian and the other Muslim neighbours of Israel.  They WILL be wiped out!

The west went to Europe (WWI and WWII) and left it Blood soaked.  The west went to Far East(China and Japan and Indonesia), and left it Blood soaked.  The west went to Asia(India and Pakistan), and left it Blood soaked.  The west went to Middle East(Ottoman Territories and Iraq and Afghanistan), and left it Blood soaked.

Remind me again who the "Terrorists" really are?  Would you be terrified of a Man/Woman/Child with a stone in his/her hand or a government with its finger on the launch button of rockets and cockpits of jets???  Well I’m terrified of the west, especially since they are getting away with serial murder!

This did not happen in the time of the Khaleefs! Not according to History!  Not in such Wide scale disasters and oppression as the "Western Civilized" nations are known to do and proven by demonstrating it.

in the name of God who is Most Gracious and Most Merciful

dear elaine

thanks for your intention to communicate inshallah meaning God willing you will communicate with people here...

would you please tell us... what you think about islam... about the Muhammad and about the Qur an...

please tell us why in your opinion the most learned of the rabbis in the city of medina at the time of the prophet embraced islam... and have... throughout history consistently done it... tell us why you think in islam... people from christianity of judaism get rewarded doubly by God if they embrace islam...

did you know about this?

why do you believe in israel....

have you thought about what happened with the people who used to live before in the place where you are living now?? were they peacefully compensated and displaced to somewhere else?? or... what happened to them??

i didnt read much of your message im sorry i tried to get to the essence of it... but listen, you say... guess what... were staying here...

excuse me..... are you interested in the truth? in what justice is?? really? concerning this situation?? if you are... we will continue to dialogue if not...

how can God allow you to see the truth concerning all this??? please please ... challenge what islam... ok not certain muslims, islam... establishes about this situation... you will surprise yourself and i assure you that God willing you will find many beautiful things along the way...

because this is all the issue here...

i truly hope you and all of us see clearly the truth in all of this... and may God lead all good hearted people to insure and establish justice in this and all lands..

amen

abdullah

peace be to you to dear Elaine

international islamic university of malaysia

a message from lebanese too all or you  the arabs and the israelis jew:
i will start by the israel , at first shame on me coz i join you and send you a message , but let me tell you , nice step but will never change our point of view, you are our enemy and you will stay our enemy , and we will see who will stand longer, and go and pray to coz we still didnt attack civils but nasrallah , said and you will see that he will make it true , you beleive him more than your prime minister , and please dont forget to tell those sick mindedn to check your mirkava in south lebanon , and inside it t here is 4 killed soldiers, and their body became disgusting now, ain;t it ironic...
and the second message for those ppl , starting by the admin and the founder and the users and guest :
i dont belong to you and you don't belong to us ,
menwhile the war, you stay here trying to defend s and give them the chance to talk , i can;t beleive you do that , an isreal woman talk in the middle of an islamic site . but please don;t say that you support us coz wif that is your support we don;t it , go and watch tv , it will help us more...
hmm you dont beleive ok, in egypt , till 2007 the journaliste dont have their freedom , in marroc, till 2006 , the pray t their king , why coz he have a new child and he gave the freedom of 100 person , and now the problem , that they pray that god give him more kids, to see all the prisoners outside,
so thats why i dont belong to you and you don;t belong to us ...
and 2 questions :
1 - do you think by this debate you help us ?
2 - you asked me to join your forums , so do you think that like this i help the killed ppl ?
look arounf the ppl went to the moon , and you still trying to give your voice more power, lo0ol, i feel sorry abt you ,
china stand up and face usa as iran did , as north korea, and arabic ppl busy by their voice,
so after that , i hope that you drop my acount in this webiste , coz i feel shame when i visit it ,
my user name : aloush41
my passwd : dreamsnana
so anyone can take his responsability and drop it,
well last word, " now israel is fighting the grand sons of mohamed the prohet and ali and hassan and hussein" and they will know us soon ,a nd you arabs , maybe when we finish from israel we will help you to give your voice some strengh but now you can stay lost inside your dreams
...
we dont belong to you
Ali,
be sure that i will never join the website so no need to reply
i used to put the site adress next my forbidden sites,...
and know one thing my enemy is my enemy , the killer of my gand father he is my enemy , and the freidn of my enemy he is my enemy , and it is a sign for all of you who replyed her, and who asked god toprotect her,what i alaughing abt is that egyptian one living in ksa, god will ask you who you defended other muslims andyou know they are right , god will ask you why you called hizballah terrorist , god will ask you what you did when you saw sharon in the quds mosquee , and you know he is the unpure, look at them till now german ppl pay them what hitler said and they dont forget , and now you wanna forget what they did sorry i mean what they are doing and going to do ...
 

People were forcefully removed from their homes. Its not the Jews that were forced out, it was the Palastinians that were dragged out of their homes.  Israel never was, pre-WWII. That is what started this!!! Not Hizbollah or Hammas or Iran or Lebenon...It was the carving of the land by foreign occupying military forces after WWII that resulted in the apartheid regime of that is the Israeli Government!  Do not ignore your history!  Read that before Israel, Muslims Jews and Christians lived together!!!  In peace, by the order of the Islamic Law!  But by the order of Zyonist Law, Muslim Palistinians were to be oppressed and shoved onto Location Camps...much like the Native Indian Americans were forced to do...much like the Blacks and Mr Mandella were forced to do.  The only sollution to Mandella's problem, (I hope the WORLD is reading this) The only sollution was to get the oppressive government out of Power and instill a democratic and fair leadership of this land!  The only sollution to the Middle East, the Israeli Government HAS TO GO.  There IS no, and NEVER will be any, other PEACEFUL sollution!!!

Untill America stops giving Israel the Weapons and other means to oppress and terrorise its neighbours into submission and withdrawal of their lands, the Israeli government will continue to be the "Wolf amoung the sheep" in the Middle East. 

Its not the Jews that is the problem here, its the Israeli Government's Policies.

The nature of existance...OCCUPATION = RESISTANCE!  FREEDOM = PEACE!  p.s.: Resistance is not Terrorism for you propoganda spinners!

So go to the true source of the conflict! and not your version of it!

“We want truth and justice as much as you do.”

Well, just go back to Poland, Czechoslovakia, Russia, North America or wherever it is that you, or your parents, came from.

Simply stated, go home!

Truly, a picture is worth a thousand words!

Oh please, stop with all of the Israel defending! All of this was Israel's fault! There are some reports that say Israel crossed *FIRST* into Lebanon!

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG15Ak02.html

Let's assume that it was Hezbollah that crossed over into Israeli territory and kidnapped those 2 soldiers! All of this started when Israel continuously kidnapped Lebanese *INSIDE* of Lebanon for years! Hezbollah wanted the prisoners freed, but Israel refused to! Hezbollah said to free them or else they would kidnap Israeli soldiers, but Israel ignored them!  In fact, the IDF *planned* a deliberate provocation of Hamas and Hezbollah!

http://lataan.blogspot.com/2006/07/it-seems-israel-planned-deliberate.html

If this was to fight against the "terror" group Hezbollah then why have the IDF attacked Government and Civilian areas first, and mostly these areas? They had *NOTHING* to do with Hezboll