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Thread: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
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Replies:
13
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Last Post:
May 8, 2007 3:23 PM
by: n3ocortex
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Posts:
29
Registered:
6/23/06
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What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 19, 2007 11:12 AM
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Protests have flared up across Pakistan's streets over Musharaf's decision of suspending Pakistan's Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry. Some say that pressures were put on Chaudhry to resign, but he daringly refused. The crisis now between Musharaf and the judicial establishment is soaring up so high at a time when the opposition parties along with the Islamic groups have let the genie of large-scale protests out of the bottle. I think there is also a creeping anger under the surface that usually shows up during such protests. It's the anger over Musharaf's apparent support for the US war on terror. Pakistanis have always put this in mind while opposing Musharaf every now and then. Where are these protests taking Pakistan to? Could these protests end Musharaf's rule and put Pakistan's Islamic opposition in power? What do you think?
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Posts:
4,958
From:
The Independents and objective observers communities
Registered:
3/25/03
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Re: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 19, 2007 5:26 PM
in response to:
For_Humanity
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The Pakistanis are under control by a puppet figure that the thieves in the U.S. fund, control, and told to hate. As the puppet figure carry more orders from the theives in order to gain the thieves' trust, the Paskistanis became frustrated and want change. What the Pakistanis want is democracy, freedom, and the right to their nation, but the thieves in the U.S. want to keep their puppet in power. It is a hard situation for the Pakistanis and I hope they can overcome the obstacles that the theives in the U.S. had pup upon them. Song
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701
Registered:
7/2/00
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Re: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 20, 2007 12:04 PM
in response to:
songyang
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Songyang, do you have any training or experieince with macroeconomics?
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Posts:
662
Registered:
11/27/06
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Re: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 20, 2007 4:19 PM
in response to:
songyang
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Hi Songyang
re: "What the Pakistanis want is democracy, freedom, and the right to their nation, but the thieves in the U.S. want to keep their puppet in power."
The Problem in Pakistan --------------------------
There is some truth in the above statement, however the picture is more complicated. Pakistanis are Muslims (overwhelmingly). The reason for the creation of Pakistan was Islam. Pakistan was supposed to be the Islamic State. However, the leaders of the country delivered something else (a secular state). That is why no Pakistani government (civilian or military) has ever been seen as legitimate in the eyes of the majority of Pakistanis.
It is like George Bush trying to impose Communism in America. He will never be seen as legitimate, because the people reject Communism. Similarly, Muslims reject secular government. They have no respect for secular government, because it contradicts their belief system (Islam) - just like U.S. citizens would have no respect for a Communist White House.
The Solution for Pakistan ----------------------------
Everyone in Pakistan knows the problems the nation faces. So what is the way forward?
Muslims want a accountable, representative, elected, open government (the Caliphate). A government where any citizen, Muslim or Non-Muslim can criticize government policy if it contradicts the constitution. The constitution itself is based on the values, traditions, and thoughts of the people (Islam) so it is seen as worthy of defending. Muslims want the same living standards as anyone else. They want an industrialized modern nation. Such a nation i believe is The Islamic State or Khilafah (english: Caliphate).
Anyone trying to deny the Muslims such a destiny is like the British Imperialist of the previous centuries trying to deny the American the right to form the United States of America.
America was their destiny, The Caliphate is Ours.
I heard your father worked for the CIA. Interesting. Here is what a brother from Indonesia posted on another forum:
"Analisis intelijen di 15 negara yang tergabung dalam National Intelligence Council (NIC) yang bermarkas di Kantor Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) di Langley Virginia Amerika Serikat melaporkan bahwa pada 2020, akan tiba kehidupan religius berdasarkan Syariat Islam secara total. Dalam laporannya yang berjudul "Mapping the Global Future", Direktur NIC, Robert Hutchings mengungkapkan bahwa masa depan dunia akan muncul pada tahun 2020, yaitu kebangkitan kembali Kekhilafahan Islam (Islamic Caliphate). Kekhilafahan Islam adalah sebuah pemerintahan Islam yang mampu memberi tantangan pada norma-norma dan nilai-nilai Barat (Harian USA Today, edisi 13 Februari 2005/HU Kompas, 16/2/2005)."
Intelligence Analyses from 15 nations that has connections to the National Intelligence Council (NIC) that is with the CIA in Langley, Virginia, USA, has reported that by the year 2020, the will be a Islamic resurgence based on the Shari'ah on a global scale.
In a report entitled, "Mapping the Global Future", NIC Director, Robert Hutchings predicted that by 2020, the Islamic Khilafah will rise and be established. The Islamic Khilafah is a system based on Islamic Law which will challenge the norms and the way of life of the West.
As we Muslims say: Insha-Allah (if God wills)
Take care
Saladin
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701
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Re: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 20, 2007 4:44 PM
in response to:
Saladin
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re:"Intelligence Analyses from 15 nations that has connections to the National Intelligence Council (NIC) that is with the CIA in Langley, Virginia, USA, has reported that by the year 2020, the will be a Islamic resurgence based on the Shari'ah on a global scale.
In a report entitled, "Mapping the Global Future", NIC Director, Robert Hutchings predicted that by 2020, the Islamic Khilafah will rise and be established. The Islamic Khilafah is a system based on Islamic Law which will challenge the norms and the way of life of the West.As we Muslims say: Insha-Allah (if God wills)" Saladin, with respect, your source of the NIC report are misleading, the context and reference you make are to the below fictional scenario used as an example in 'risk management." For others reading, I invite you to visit the NIC website: http://www.dni.gov/nic/NIC_home.html The actual report: http://www.dni.gov/nic/NIC_globaltrend2020.html And the source of the article Saladin sited: http://www.dni.gov/nic/NIC_globaltrend2020_s3.html "The fictional scenario portrayed below provides an example of how a global movement fueled by radical religious identity could emerge. Under this scenario, a new Caliphate is proclaimed and manages to advance a powerful counter ideology that has widespread appeal. It is depicted in the form of a hypothetical letter from a fictional grandson of Bin Ladin to a family relative in 2020. He recounts the struggles of the Caliph in trying to wrest control from traditional regimes and the conflict and confusion which ensue both within the Muslim world and outside between Muslims and the United States, Europe, Russia and China. While the Caliph’s success in mobilizing support varies, places far outside the Muslim core in the Middle East—in Africa and Asia—are convulsed as a result of his appeals. The scenario ends before the Caliph is able to establish both spiritual and temporal authority over a territory—which historically has been the case for previous Caliphates. At the end of the scenario, we identify lessons to be drawn."
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Posts:
1,451
From:
Pago Pago
Registered:
9/6/05
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Re: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 19, 2007 5:47 PM
in response to:
For_Humanity
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I think after everyone reads Songyang's mind-boggling response, nothing else will be forthcoming.
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662
Registered:
11/27/06
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Re: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 20, 2007 4:29 PM
in response to:
For_Humanity
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And here is another quotation from that other discussion forum regarding Pakistan:
"I am an army officer and weep on what is going on... we hate the general [Musharraf] more than any non uniform man can..."
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It is only a matter of time before someone in the Muslim army gives Nusrah (Military support) to the Global Caliphate Movement led by Hizb-ut-Tahrir. When that happens, the Caliphate will be established.
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and here is another interesting quotation:
“They will try to re-establish a caliphate throughout the entire Muslim world..." General John Abizaid (11/05)
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and my favorite:
****************************************************************************** “If Islamic rule is an idea taking hold among the Islamic masses, how does even the best army on earth stop it?” Pat Buchanan (23/06/06) ******************************************************************************
How indeed?
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701
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Re: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 20, 2007 4:48 PM
in response to:
Saladin
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re: "******************************************************************************“If Islamic rule is an idea taking hold among the Islamic masses, how does even the best army on earth stop it?” Pat Buchanan (23/06/06) ******************************************************************************
How indeed?" Simple, better ideas.
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662
Registered:
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Re: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 21, 2007 11:25 AM
in response to:
Vision
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re: "re: "******************************************************************************“If Islamic rule is an idea taking hold among the Islamic masses, how does even the best army on earth stop it?” Pat Buchanan (23/06/06) ******************************************************************************
How indeed?"
Simple, better ideas."
Our ideas are stronger than yours.
The Islamic Caliphate means an elected, representative, accountable government. Where the leader can be impeached by the Supreme Court (The Court of Unjust Acts) if he implements another system of government.
A government for the people, accountable to the people. A free press that can criticize corrupt rulers and where there is a multi-party system so people have a choice.
The Caliphate's economy is run along largely free market principles. Private ownership is allowed on most goods. However, public assets like lakes, rivers, oil, gas etc cannot be owned by private citizens, but are rather used for the benefit of all citizens Muslim and Non-Muslim.
Non-Muslim women do not pay tax. Non-Muslim men pay half tax Muslim men pay.
******************************************************************************** How are you going to compete with such a Caliphate system? Are you going to allow Muslim women in the West to pay 0% tax? Are you going to allow Muslim men in the West to pay half the tax Non-Muslims pay? ********************************************************************************
Really? I think not. You see, we Muslim "put our money where our mouth is". We actually believe in Islam strongly enough to allow a 50% reduction in the tax rate for Non-Muslim men and a 100% reduction in the tax rate for Non-Muslim women - Just to win them over to Islam.
You cannot, will not and dare not try the same approach with Muslims in your secular systems. You cannot compete.
Its not just about ideas. Its about cold hard cash. We are not taking about a Taliban state here. We Muslims are aiming for a modern 21st Century Open system of government. For Muslims and Non-Muslims. For men and women.
We want women to work and contribute to the economy (as well as being mothers - which is a very important role God has given them).
We want Non-Muslims to live with us and work with us. We won't see people as "immigrants" but will welcome them. Most people outside America do not hate Islam and i think many Non-Muslims will come to live in the Low Tax, low crime, elected Caliphate. Maybe you won't: many others will. We shall see.
your ideas are too weak to compete with Islam. You may as well give up my secularist friend
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956
From:
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Registered:
11/22/06
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Re: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 21, 2007 11:37 AM
in response to:
Saladin
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only in your dreams......
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662
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Re: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 21, 2007 11:51 AM
in response to:
steelers01
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re: "only in your dreams......"
1) You Americans have your "American Dream". We Muslims have our "Caliphate Dream"
Like your USA, the United States of Islam is only a matter of time. Muslims want it, and the invsions of Iraq and Afganistan make Muslims want such a system of Unity even more.
2) If the Caliphate is a "Dream" why is the C.I.A. making warnings about its emergence. Why are your generals like General John Abizaid talking about it?
3) How many times have we seen a coup in the Muslim world?
It is only a matter of time before a military figure takes power in the name of Islam and implements the elected Caliphate system i've outlined here. Once he is ready to take power, the political party working with him, can mobilize the masses, NGOs, student movements, trade Unions etc. The scenario is not a dream. It has worled in the former soviet republics and can work for the elected, accountable Caliphate too. What do the english say? Where there is a will, there is a way. And there is a will all right.
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956
From:
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Registered:
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Re: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 21, 2007 12:09 PM
in response to:
Saladin
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As soon as you make the announcement, he will be as good as dead. The west will have nothing to do with it. Sooner or later as they always do, the muslims will screw each other over and go back to the killing. When the west stops educating the brightest of muslims, the middle east will become darker than it already is. Remember that on the world stage, islamic studies as a major when you attend college,doesn't mean much to anyone.
But I certainly won't be a buzzkill and ruin your dream, no siree.
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662
Registered:
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Re: What Makes Pakistan Boiling?
Posted:
Apr 21, 2007 12:07 PM
in response to:
For_Humanity
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re: "Could these protests end Musharaf's rule and put Pakistan's Islamic opposition in power?"
What Pakistanis do not want -------------------------------
Pakistanis do not want the rule of the Mullahs. The Mullahs are seen as collaborators in the current corrupt system. The people know "that" (secularised, watered down version of) Islam is not Islam at all. That's why "Islamic" parties like Jamate-Islamia do not get many votes during an election. The Mullahs would take us back to the Stone Ages.
What Pakistanis do want --------------------------
Pakistanis want tha "real" Islam. Where Muslims pray, and they also work in high rise office blocks.
The real Islam where Muslim women can work as well as being mothers. The Islam where we fast in Ramadan and also develop nuclear and space technology. The Islam where we read the Quran, and also LIVE by it.
Pakistanis want a modern 21st Century elected, representative Islamic Caliphate government. A properly functioning economy, able to stand on its own two feet.
Pakistanis want jobs. There are educated people: They have no jobs. They want education for their kids, and free health care.
In short they want a high standard of living, as well as the Islamic Culture and Values and Government free of corruption (as far as humanly possible).
Pakistanis want the elected Caliphate (Khilafah), with a free press to account the ruler.
When they have this Pakistan will stop boiling and calm down (Insha-Allah).
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