This is a sad world isn't it.  The world had adopt CIA style of war.  This is another reason why I am advocating against robbery especially like the one the Bush and his co-robbers are perpatrating in Iraq.

I wish God will do something to this crisis, so that no thieve will take advantage of the situation which eventually prolonge the conflicts.

A deceived person who worship created beings and deceived by satan is advocating how the muslims should lead their life. Truly pathetic!

NotDeceived,

I guess you got deceived in this particular thread. Reasons? Here goes:

1. The situation in Somalia and that in Sudan (Darfur) are totally different. Suffice to say that all the warring factions in Somalia are Somalis and there is not a single warrior from out of Somalia. What I'm saying here is that all thoseon both sides of conflict in Somalia are Somalis. 

This leads us to the second reason...

2. The facts, pseudo-facts, miltias' names and acronyms,...etc. that you mention and use to validate your answer are wholly irrelavent.

It reminds me of a nice anecdote. Hope you'd like to share it with me: At a conference held between US and Vietnam delegates after the US pulled out of Vietnam, a sturdy American army officer addressed his Vietnam counterpart: "You know what? We didn't lose a single battle in Vietnam." Here's the funny part: The Vietnam official answered back: "That may be true, but it is also irrelavent."

"What I quote above is part of my reply to NotDeceived who claims that there are Arab militias in Somalia, supporting the Islamic Courts militia. I firmly believe that to be incorrect. "

First, these are NOT my claims, I only posted many sources of news articles instead of one as to not show bias.

Personally, I hope does not turn into another Dafar!!!

By the way, Baidoa is where the president and the transitional government are based, not the Islamic Courts militia.

From the articles including those from the UN, the Arabs in Africa were showing much prejudism towards the Arabs and against the black Africans.  Again, I hope this is not a repeat of the Dafar history and Muslim militia fighting.

Regards

It depends on whether they willing to be a puppet of the U.S. if they don't then the others who is willing will be in power. 

Apparently, America has taken some interest in the situation.The progress of the Islamist is a cause for worry- they might harbour terrorist they say.

My point is this, just the people's support is not all that is necessary. For as long as the Islamists shall base themselves on Sharia, they shall have an dversasry in America and hat is one formidable opponent. The Americans would do anything and everything to undermine them, regardless of the people's opinion. And don't say that's irrelevant. Just look at Palestine now.

Islamist has become synonimous with terrorist, and America has "declared war on terror". Right now, they are meeting with the warlords who've been defeated to discuss the atrocities being committed in Somalia.

Swabiros,

Quite true, it is relevant. One feels sad for others' interference into troubled nations' affairs. When the US interferes, it will definitely not be with the intention of preserving the Somali people's interest. What can Somalis do to stop interest-based interference in their affairs?

And are you saying the Arabian Militia's concern is for the people and not strategic?

Let's see if they stop severe poverty and stop all the raping and plumaging of villages such as they are doing in Durfar.

Regards

I guess you didn't read the articles...which clearly state they are Arabians, not black Africans - these are Arab militias, or Janjaweed who are plumaging, raping women, etc.

http://www.islamonline.net/discussione/message.jspa?messageID=2567&tstart=0

They are also accused of bias and prejudism against the black Africans and for Arabians.

I am saying their concern is NOT for the people in Durfar....

Let's see what their brothers do in Somolia... and let's see if their intention really is good and for peace by putting a stop to their brothers in Durfar.

If they don't stop the violence in the other regions, in the same country, from their own brothers... I don't have a reason to trust their intentions in Somolia.

Best Regards

Uptil this moment, all media outlets did not report that the militia that is to be blamed for such suffering there is Islamic. It is rather an Arab militia. Janjawid yes, that's it.

I guess you do know what's the difference between being an Arab and being an Islamist. Don't you?

America is against anyone who tries to "control" and "take over another nation" using violence.  America is standing beside the elected government "of the people."  Americans are not forcing their own set of laws based on their religion upon others.

Not so in Africa, force, control and even take over is acheived through violance and force... by those who are not black native Africans and have been known to have links to Al Qaida terrorist group.  And the news laws and government, are not elected by the people, but are being forced upon them in the name of religon.

My concern is that this "self imposed government" is merely behaving in a militia strategic manner rather than for concern of the people of Africa.

God have mercy on the people of Africa!

Best Regards

Daniel,

It's not Bush who is interested; actually it's the whole lot of US policy-makers who are.

The main reason is to make sure no Islamist government assumes control.

Check where Somalia is on the map. It overseas the Indian Ocean and the Gulf of Aden. How far can a country be  strategic (geographically) than that? 

Another thing is that the country is very poor in terms of  infrastructure. You'll find literally hundreds of US companies willing to compete for carving up a piece of that cake.

Putting all these reasons aside, remember the Battle of Mogadishu? The US wants to win back its pride.

So then, since the Islamics aren't concerned about the Muslims who are raping women and looting villages in Darfur Africa; based on your theory of why America doesn't want the Islamic government to rule there for strategy reasons - one might conclude that the Islamics only want control of the government in Somolia for it's oil and strategic positioning against the US.  Otherwise, shouldn't they "first" be concerned with the Muslims exploiting the Africans that is going on right now?

http://www.islamonline.net/discussione/thread.jspa?messageID=3078&#3078

Oil was being stolen to buy "arms" in Somolia in the past - makes one wonder...

http://www.islamonline.net/discussione/thread.jspa?messageID=4418&#4418

Best Regards

Once again, your missing the point.

Why would the Islamics be concerned with bringing peace in one region of the country while they are causing war and harm to another All while, the ones claiming to want to bring peace not even concerned, and allow, their brothers to do harm and cause war in another region in the same country?

What you cannot understand is that being an Islamist does not mean you must take care of the whole world's problems.

Islamist Somalis take care of their own problems in Somalia.

On the other hand, in another part of Africa, in another country, the situation in Darfur is very messy. It's neither an Arabs vs. non-Arabs situation, nor is it a Muslims vs. non-Muslims situation. It's much more complicated than that.

Just imagine you are an American with Republican views whereas Mr. "who ever" is also an American but has Democratic views. Does that mean that the Democratic will be concerned about the political agenda of Democratics in another Western country?!

Please, give us a break.

... is that "no one, religion, group or people" that are not Africans should be trying to "take over its country."

If a group has an interest, it should be for the interest of the people, to help the people, not for their own religious agendas or to "rule over" or "take over."  If any other religion was attempting to take over any government or country, it could very well be considered a threat and therefore hostile as shown in other regions of Africa.

Anytime one attempts to "take over" any other group, due to their self interests, rather than the interest of the people, it will lead to more troubles.  If it were for the interest of the people, it would not "take over" but rather assist in aid, not in gain.

Regards

Selam

Somalianss have tried all the possible options and exhausted of proxy war.Neighbour countres  which supposed to reconcile have their own intrest. Ethiopia and Kenya occupied  two of the the five parts that the colony divided to. Somalians in the region of Ogaden (West Somali) have been fighting for more than 3 decades for independence and Somalia used to consider part of the Great Somali and call it West Somali and  there was a war betweeen thsi two countries for long time which that of 1977 is mentionable.The current "transitional Goverment" is orchestred by this country and fully backed by Ethiopian agreement as they principally agreed to drop this claim.

No need to go far, one can realize that how they are gumbling on the innocent civilians when the very same war lords who used to fight UN peace keepers and  US have been organized and given the  name "Coalation of anti Terrorism" and backed to fight the islamist branding them as "terrorist" the very same name that US and its allies used to call them. Not only Ethiopia but even the "transitional goverment" and the war lord used to feed US with false intelligence  information to win sypathy of the west and fill their wallet. Bothe used to lie about the islamists and called them "terrorist elements" but today  the coaltion announced their end and apologized for the wrong they commited, and MOhammed Qanyare Afrah has publicy announced that they would repent and the Islamists accepted their apology .On the other hand the "transitional goverment" has announced its readiness to negotiate though they set some kind of pre-condition.

They undermined the Islamists and they were right as the islamists don't have such armaments and camps like them but the public is thier power.The so called islamists are the communty and they consists of Community/ethnic leaders, scholars, busnessmen..... as volunteer to protect themselves and their property and it has expanded after it has shown its effectiveness in one part of Mogadishu.This is  why they could unite a city that have been lawless for 25 years and could control some cities without any blood shed!!! Somali people realized that Islam is the only way that they could unite and overcome their problem and thsi is not throught analysis but after they tried all teh other options.Ethiopia is not part of the solution but the problem and they want to cover with  this the atrocities that they commited on Somalian still under their control.A region that they only **** its resources but without any infrustructure and amoing the most backward regions without even any standard road.Thought the majority of Ethiopians are Muslims thay have been deprived their basic rights and probaly the most oppressed in this contemporary world and Ethiopia will fight any activity which might awken these poor muslims. Probaly, we are only days away while we gona see Ethiooians messing the war torn country once again and flame it as they would never allow it to reconciled and restore peace.They have been trying and will keep try to mislead the world as well ,to get them aside for their own intrest.

If Islam is the only way that they could be out of this shall we deny them just because of the source of the solution?!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Negashi,

I've learned a great deal about Somalia and its neighbours from your post.

Thank you.

Off-topic: Are you a Somali?

TakeItEasy,

He is not a Somali, the name Negashi is from Ethiopian King during prophet Mohammed (PBUH),  the prophet described the king as fair and  a good Christian.

Usran,

Thanks for the information. But the selection of a screenname neither associates nor disassociates one from what it means. Hence, my question arose.

Is this an dejavue??? Will their be another war between Ethiopia and Somalia like in 1977???

TakeItEasy

You are right a screenname neither associates nor disassociates from what it mean. The Ethiopian government night mare is a connection of Somalia Islamic court and Ethiopian Islamic movements. Negalishi post hint on this point.

Samater,

There is no more Ethiopian and Somali war. May be the borders will change the way things are going! If Islamic courts are not stabilized and not given authority I mean politics but to run courts and similar things, they will affect Ethiopian and Kenyan Muslims and the dream of greater Somalia will come to live and no one can stop it! That what Arab government are dreaming.

Two killed earlier this week for refusing to stop watching soccer

Somalian band beaten for playing music

Saturday, July 8, 2006; Posted: 10:42 p.m. EDT (02:42 GMT)

MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- The Islamic militiamen controlling the Somali capital broke up a wedding celebration because a band was playing and women and men were socializing together, witnesses said Saturday, describing the latest crackdown by a group feared to be installing Taliban-style rule in this African nation.

"We had warned the family not to include in their ceremony what is not allowed by the sharia law. This includes the mixing of men and women and playing music," Sheik Iise Salad, who heads an Islamic court in the northeastern Huriwaa District, told The Associated Press. "That is why we raided and took their equipment."

"What was going there was un-Islamic," Salad said.

The late Friday attack came three days after militiamen in central Somalia shot and killed two people at the screening of a World Cup soccer broadcast banned because it violated the fighters' strict interpretation of Islamic law. ...

The group has appeared to grow increasingly radical, forbidding movies, television and now music.

In the World Cup crackdown, the Islamic fighters were dispersing a crowd of teenagers watching the match. They opened fire after the teenagers defied their orders to leave the hall in which a businessman was screening the Germany-Italy match on satellite television. The dead were a girl and the business owner.

The Islamic group said it has arrested two of its fighters who shot and killed the victims.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/07/08/somalia.radicals.ap/index.html

Ethiopian troops have moved toward the Somali border since the ICU captured Mogadishu, and could intervene if the militia, which has called for the establishment of Islamic law in Somalia, were to move toward Baidoa, he said.

The United States has refused to deal with the militia's leader, Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys, because of his alleged ties to al Qaeda.

He is the former leader of al-Ittihad al-Islami, a Somali group that the U.S. State Department has designated a terrorist organization.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/07/09/somalia.deaths/index.html

Hmmm "The group has appeared to grow increasingly radical, forbidding movies, television and now music."

Could this be to keep people totally in the dark in order to control their minds and thoughts so that they would not know the world outside or gain independence for themselves?  This is exactly the psychology behind those who abuse women and children and those who use slavery through captivity - brainwashing them to be nothing but slaves.

This is sickening and I don't care what religion you call it - God is NOT behind these mind control, masters of slavery.

Summed up, it is my impression they are merely using the weaker Africans for their own agendas, to build their army... keeping others in the dark, using similar strategies such as mind control, so they only know and believe what is fed to them.

God and the world is watching! ;)

               ****************************************

For those who are interested in biblical prophecy you might find Ezekial 38 interesting; war against Israel...

2Son of man, set thy face against Gog [Anti-Christ], the land of Magog [Noah's grandchild, 2nd son of Japeth who settled in Russia (Genesis 10:2)], the chief prince of Rosh [Russia] Meshech [modern day Moscow] and Tubal [modern day Tobolsk], and prophesy against him,

....

 5Persia [Iran and possibly Iraq], Ethiopia, and Libya [Africa] with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

 6Gomer [Germany], and all his bands; the house of Togarmah [Turkey] of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

 7Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

 8After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

According to prophecy it appears that Egypt joins Russia with the Africans (see Daniel 11, especially 11:39-43).

Best Regards<!-- /date -->

No matter how you try to depict the Islamists the Somalis are gratefull to them . You like to exaggrate news reported by some sides who have to find something about the islamists.

Are you happy to hear that they Mogadishu is enjoting a peace never seen for 15 years? Are you sad to hear that the islamists could open the port  & the Airport that the warlords backed by US couldn't open? Are you angry that the warlords backed by US apologized and said no more puppet?

The Somalis are quite happy with the change that they are enjoying and the puppet gov. couldn't even control a small ciy called Baidowa. The mayor of city died the died, Mp wounded and today a minister assasinated.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5224108.stm

Even if thay want to establish a state with islamic value and that is the will of the Somalis then its their choose.

Never mention the intrem gov, backed by US and UN if you don't know about them.

Much has happened in Somalia in the past month.

Do you guys remember the weak interim government in Baidoa? Well, guess what? Many MPs have forcefully objected to the Ethiopian interference, especially military, in Somalia's affairs. 

What's new here is that these MPs are as official and legitimate as much as the interim government (which actually supports Ethiopean troops being deployed to protect it) can ever claim to be. Yet they disagree on letting an outsider meddle in their country's affairs.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Selam

"Many MPs have forcefully objected to the Ethiopian interference, especially military, in Somalia's affairs. "

 Ethiopia's military interferance has never been endorced by MPs  and it has been overhwlemingly rejected by their Parliament to have a role of training on thier formation before they move to Baidowa.It has never been brought to the Parliament since then but after the ICU defeated the warlords backed by US. You know whay?

The deafeated warlords (which are minsters of TF Gov. and MPs) were among the hardliners who were opposing any forces from neghbour countries. But after they lost the war neighbour countries took the apportunity and agreed not to allow any of them to flee to their country.The only haven left to the warlords is Baidowa and that couldn't happen without a deal.

The dispute was/is on the training role not on intervention militarily.MPs are unanimous that Ethiopia shouldn't interfere on Somalian affairs if not the president and some of his folks who have warm personal relationship with Ethiopian PM.That is why bot Ethiopian gov and Soamli TFG are denying so far to confrim the smuggling of Ethiopian troops to Somalia. Guess why Ethiopia is so restless? Islamists /terrorists........?

There are about 60% innocent poor muslim Ethiopians deprived their full citizenship including Ethiopian Somalis which annexed to them by British colony.They will never allow any movement which awakens these part of the community to claim their right.

Selam

"Since the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) seized control of Mogadishu on 5 June, life in Mogadishu is getting better, and business people are optimistic.

The UIC gunmen do operate road blocks but they do not demand payment from civilians.

As a result food prices have dropped."

So what's the problem?

1. "The biggest worry is the weapons which are still in the hands of clan-based militia and ordinary Somalis."

2. The forever-weak interim government's top leaders, with its presence in only one town -Baidoa- of Somalia, waver between holding talks with the UIC or not doing so.

The first problem can be easily solved: let those people hand in their weapons and ammunition caches to the UIC. They don't "like" the UIC? Fine, let them destroy the weapons themselves.

The second is already being solved. Somali MPs, which are an integral part of the interim government, are openly defying the stubborn Ghedi -interim government PM- and plan to hold direct talks with the UIC.

See: 

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5168008.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5239304.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5231180.stm

In case you've missed it, Somali MPs are quitting in protest of the interim government:

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-08-02T180940Z_01_L02115347_RTRUKOC_0_UK-SOMALIA.xml&archived=False 

That's of course after some ministers, almost eleven, quit too.

In the name of God,

 I would say the change that took place in which the religious people took up arms against the criminal warlords who did not care about themselves let alone the Somali people. Somalia inshallah will never be like Tunisia,Turkey and lately Morocco, these Muslim countries have taken outrages measures in which in instead of encourage hijab, some have band their women from wearing them in universities while other have removed pictures of girls wearing hijab from text books.

Somali people are religious people, after the civil war with no government to harass outspoken scholars religious knowledge has flourished and people became more religious. So what we are seeing in Somalia now is the fruits of the last 15 years, inshallah i hope the Islamic courts are open minded and work with the outside world including Iran,USA/Canada, the E. U. and Israel, Venezuela, these are a number of countries that come to my head were there seems to be transparence in governance. The is what we need in Somalia, if those governing are people who fear Allah its a plus, "we all pray for righteous leaders." People need to stop the propaganda that Islamic courts are extremist, the leaders of the Islamic courts are very complex with different views who will listen to advises from sincere mumins.

I have heard from Sh.Sharif their executive chairman that they never did ban "the World cup" this unrealistic. In Africa this basically the only sports we watch and play. Its sad that in some places the masjids are empty while the youth watch TV or even worse porno in the Internet. This are issues that should concern righteous leaders and more importantly imams of the masajid. Peace. May Allah help those who follow the foot steps of the last prophet.

The Great Game in Somalia by Abid Mustafa (Saturday June 03 2006) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The chances of US success depend upon how she is able to counter threats from other powers. In Sudan countries like France, Britain, China and Russia have made it complicated for America to realise her goal and in Somalia this too may prove to be difficult." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The recent upsurge in fighting between the various factions in Somalia is a typical example of wars being fought throughout the African continent where the real benefactor is neither the people nor local governments, but major powers. Somalia is another country that has been caught up in a vicious struggle between great powers competing against each other to control the Horn of Africa. The reason for this interference in Somalia’s internal affairs is simple. Somalia is replete with abundance of natural resources. Uranium deposits, oil and natural gas can be found in Somalia. Oil seeps were discovered in the colonial era by both British and Italian geologists. Later, French and American oil companies competed with British and Italian oil companies for concession rights to the exploration of oil. In the years to follow Somalia became a battle ground between Europe and America for the right to control Somalia’s oil wealth. Europe led by Britain fought America through supporting local militias and surrogate countries like Kenya, Uganda and Djibouti, while America supported her militiamen through countries like Ethiopia and Sudan. The power struggle between Europe and America contributed to decades of civil war, secessionist movements and break away states. In the late 80s, under the leadership of Somalia's pro-U.S. President Mohamed Siad Barre nearly two-thirds of Somalia was allocated to the American oil giants Conoco, Amoco, Chevron and Phillips. Siad Barre was inconveniently deposed just as Conoco reportedly hit black gold with nine exploratory wells, confirmed by World Bank geologists at the time. During the coup, US envoy to Somalia, Robert Oakley took refuge at Conco headquarters. The removal of Baree prompted Bush senior to dispatch 20,000 US troops in 1992 to restore US rule and thereby secure valuable oil concessions granted to US oil companies. The military intervention was touted as a humanitarian intervention designed to save the starving Somalian souls from famine. The military action resulted in defeat for the US as she was unable to accomplish her mission and pulled out. Nonetheless, America made sure that her retreat would not encourage the Europeans to exert control, and a bitter struggle ensued between these powers via their agents in Somalia and the neighbouring countries. These powers did not allow any stable government to form and encouraged a number of secessionist states such as Puntland, Somaliland and Jubaland to cede from Somalia or at least demand greater autonomy. Despite the civil war, foreign countries were able to oil sign treaties with the transitional Somalia government. Oil companies from France, the UK, the UAE, and China attained exploration rights granted by the Transitional National Government, the Somaliland government, and the Puntland government respectively. TotalFinaElf, which has been operating in the port of Berbera throughout the civil war, signed an exploration deal with the TNG in early 2001 off the Somali coast during which the government would provide security for TotalFinalElf employees. Rovagold of the UK, Dubai-based Zarara, and two Chinese firms signed exploration deals with the Somaliland government. Chinese firms are reportedly conducting exploration activities in Puntland. It was not until the events of September 11 that America began take a renewed interest in Somalia. This time America used the pretext of fighting terrorism to pursue her oil interests in the country. Somalia, like other energy rich countries features heavily as part of America’s grand plan to control the energy reserves of the world for the next fifty years. However, due to her awful occupation of Iraq, America was unable to give due attention to Somalia until now. But this time America is supporting both the warlords and the Islamists to manufacture a pretext to invade the country. A top US diplomat in Africa, Jendayi Frazer, acknowledged that the White House would work with those who can help "prevent Somalia becoming a safe haven for terrorists". The statement was in reference to assisting the warlords against the Islamists. America has been equipping the warlords with weapons. These are the very same warlords who have been accommodated in Yusuf’s government as part of a power sharing agreement. These warlords include those who hold the portfolios of security, trade, religion, disarmament and reconstruction. Furthermore the US has also subverted any attempt to interrupt the supply of weapons to both sides. A United Nations report called for a tighter arms embargo on Somalia but this was rejected by the Security Council. The report stated that an unnamed country had been flouting the weapons ban to help local groups fight the Islamic militants. It said that Ethiopia was supplying weapons to Mr Yusuf's interim government, while Eritrea was arming the Islamists The American plan is to fragment the country into regions and then encourage the energy laden areas to cede and fall in line with US interests. This bears strong resemblance to America’s plan to divide Sudan. The chances of US success depend upon how she is able to counter threats from other powers. In Sudan countries like France, Britain, China and Russia have made it complicated for America to realise her goal and in Somalia this too may prove to be difficult.

What awaits Somalia?

War under the blessing of US.Americans are fighting Islam every where .They have alredy made their soldiers in all territorial border that Somalia has, Ethiopian & Somalia.

This time their strong agent is Ethiopia which has fear of  the raise of its Muslims , and turn out the face of their being majority to the world, after they have been under oppression for long time not to mention the money that they get and alsoas a tool to diffue internal political turmoil.

Ethiopia would never allow Somalia to settle as that boosts Somali ethnic groups annexed to them by British colony to, fighting for independece for decades.The same is true for Kenya and we find that they are the most active in the region wedded with US under what they call "war on terror".

Everybody thought that the war lords backed by US would finish the Islamist but what happened was the opposite and with no doubt the Islamists would prevail for the simple reason that they are public and no one can have Somalia without Somalis.

Selam