For US and Britain to interfere in Indian Internal problem it was required to to kill US or Britain citizen to make it to an International Issue and then rest you know the so called war on Terrorism.

As-Salamu 'Alaykum:

    Let us first remember that Mumbai is the financial center of India just as NY is the financial center of America.

    Second this attack was meant to make chaos and panic. Where ever there is chaos and panic, there is a pretext for military action.

    Don't be surprised if there is internal involvement within the Indian Government, police or military.

Allahu 'Alam

Uff,at last! I have already started to worry that Muslims will not use their usual trick of putting the blame on the USA and Israel-but no,Muslims have not  dissapointed me.

The experts say that Indian Mujahideen may have been involved. The India-based group first became well-known approximately one year ago, when it declared war on India for what it called anti-Muslim persecution and support for the U.S. It has murdered dozens in previous terrorist attacks, including an attack in May that killed 63.

Indian Mujahideen is not the only terrorist group capable of mass-casualty attacks, however. Experts also suspect the Army of the Pure terrorist group, which murdered over 200 people in the Mumbai train station in 2006. The Mumbai train station was one of the locations targeted in Wednesday and Thursday's attack.

krakov, things are not clear yet, so don't jump into conclusion and be a smart *** and accuse Muslims only because you hate them. On the contrary, reports say that there might be a connection to the mossad and other Indian groups whose main aim was to get rid of ATS chief Hemant Karkare and his comrades, and he was the first victim.

In all cases this is a terrible irresponsible stupid and unacceptable act of terrorism.

This is not Mossad or Hindu extremists. The likelihood is that these people are Islamic fanatics linked to Lashkar e toiba and probably trained by ISI.

We all know that Hindu extremists have committed terrorist acts in the past. However, you need to look at the facts and acknowledge that there is a problem with terrorism in south asia comming from Pakistan.

Just because you are Muslim do not feel the need to shift the blame, we must fight this problem together, terrorists do not serve to help Muslims causes anywhere.

 "those who did that are just pigs,people who are so scared to fight like men,pigs pigs pigs"

And those who attack and kill Israeli civilians are "glorious fighters" .

I have heard from a friend in Mumbai that this situation was predicted weeks ago, in retaliation for the ATS (Anti Terrorist Squad) having interrogated high ranking Hindu spiritual leaders in connection with past bombings (that were undertaken to discredit Moslems).  Under interrogation the Hindu leader had admitted to involvement in the bombings and pointed to Indian government army supplying weapons.  The ATS's interrogation began revealing more and more prominent Hindu leader and government involvement, hence this attack was staged, involving international tourists, to lure the head of the ATS on site, in order to kill him (which was their original intention).  In addition, by making it appear as though the government troops 'rescue' the international tourists, it makes the government forces out to be big heroes, garnering the respect and gratitude of Britain and USA. 

One thing for certain, the group has expensive and sophistocated backing, though the actual on-site terrorists are all very young.  It is even possible that government would be able to trick young, inexperienced wanna-be-Islamic-terrorists to carry out their plan, telling them that it really is an Islamic attack, when in fact it could have been a government and Hindu devised attack in order to regain discredit Moslems, and to get the population to turn their attention away from the results of the Hindu leader interrogations, which implicated the government.  I am wondering why none of the International news agencies have put any spotlight on the fact that there had been threats towards the ATS weeks ago ... and the threats have been fully carried out with yesterday's killing of the Anti Terrorist Sqad leader. 

(and by the way, I am neither Moslem nor Hindu.  I live in Canada and look at this issue from an unbiased perspective, just putting two and two together of the events over the past few weeks).

Thank you,now all is clear.

The American government organized 9/11 to discredit muslims.

The Indian government organized the whole serie of the murderous attacks,including the last one,just in order to discredit muslims.

The Russian goverment organized Budinovks,Dubrovnik and Beslan just in order to discredit...

The British Government...

The Spanish Government.

The Indonesian Government...

The Turkish Government...

And of course,the Israeli government organized the attacks on Sderot,sending the Mossad in Gaza and ordering them to pass for arabs..Also,this vile Israeli government organized the attacks on  ice-cream cafes in Heifa during the childrens´holiday  just in order..well,you know.

"and by the way, I am neither Moslem nor Hindu.  I live in Canada and look at this issue from an unbiased perspective...",

Sure,buddy. You´re just a neutral observer.

I'm just a Moose; but it is self-evident even to us Mooses that Islam is entirely blameless in this entire affair.

Muslims would never, ever, ever do such heinous acts.  Muslims do not even know which end of a gun to point at.  FYI, all of you Muslims should hold the end with the hole towards yourselves when firing.

That is all I have to say at this time.

Regards,

Bullwinkle

YOU ARE RIGHT FARZANRAZI.

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/palestine52.html

 WATCH THE ABOVE LINK

UNBELIEVABLE.

Israel is a terrorist state and must wipe out on this planet.

"i wonder u are krakov or CRACK?"

About YOU,I have no doubts;you are NUTS.

"Do not you feel shame to talk on behalf of Israelis who have doing the grave terrorism in the history on Earth? "

Really?

9/11 in the USA.

9/3 in Madrid

Terrorosit attacks in London.

Terrorist attacks in Moscow.

Murder of children in Beslan.

Murder of ill persons,patients of the hospital in Budienovsk

Nord-Ost in Moscow

Terrorist attacks in Bombay

Terrorist attack in Deli

Terrorist attack in Buenos Aires

Terrorist attacks in Paris

Murder of the Australian tourists in Bali

Murder of the Spanish tourists in Casablanca.....

Who perpetrated akk these attacks?Israelis?

No.

Who support bin Laden?

Who danced of joy after the 9/11?

And you , hypocritycal still have the audacity to blame others of terrorism?

Message was edited by:
Moderator

MOST BRUTAL CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

FROM ISREAL TO LEBANON

 http://www.lgic.org/en/Israel-terrorism-on-lebanon.htm

astFor you Israel haters, Israel will not fall for a loooong time. They will get support from the US forever. They remain the most powerful entity in the Middle East. They can easily crush the militaries of the pathetic Arab states around them.

Now that Iraq is under US control, what can stand up to the IDF at this point?  The Israeli military routinely defeats the arabs around them so it is obvious that God is supporting them.  Allah abandoned the Arabs long ago...

This ridiculous man. Israelis were killed and held hostage at Nariman House.

Zionists and extreme Hindus do commit terrorist acts aswel.

But you need to look at the facts as just released the terrorists were from KARACHI.

Dear  farzanrazi 

You so desperately tried to be ironic,that finally,ended as amusing.

." Can anyone in the world remember or worry about the case against Hindu terrorist cell which was unveiled by Maharashtra’s Anti Terrorism Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare? Now its successfully diverted. Isn’t it?
2. Where is now Karkare? Wasn’t he targeted and wiped out his from this world by the terrorists at the initial stage of this Drama?”

Do you know that Hemant Karkare was killed while  he personally headed one of the anty-terrorist groups which assaulted the terrorists?And if he were only wounded?And if he broke the leg two hours before tha assault and could not take active part in it?Then what?Then it would look like this:Mossad,one of the strongest and most competent Intelligence Services of the world,sent a group of 60 suicide-fighters to make a mayhem in the capital of India,one of the main trade partners of Israel, to murder 150 foreigners,among them some 20 Israelis, just in order to kill some guy from ATS,with very high chances that he would stay alive?If you seriously believe in this,then you are even more stupid than your questions are.

“3. Why Indian forces or any media didn't show a single dead body of terrorist so far?”

Are you a necrophiliac ? What are you going to do with these photos of dead terrorists? To resuscitate them, hitting them with a piece of meat of the yellow cow, as Muhammad once did? But you do not posess the magic power he, reportedly, had.

4. How the so-called "foreign terrorists" can continuously fight for more than 2 days without worrying about the stock of the weapons. They are frequently blasting, shooting and setting fires here and there? Did they bring such a large quantity of military hardware?
5. If so, how they brought such a large quantity of weapons for this attack

You,evidently,were not a star of math in your school, right? And you, evidently, have not served in the Army.

There were 60 terrorists who participated in the attack.They attacked 5 targets,i.e. 12 attackers per target.All the eyewitnesses confirm that they had rucksacks.They landed from boats,not from planes.It means they had not weight limit.They did not need any food, because it was a short suicide raid,which makes free a lot of space in the rucksack.They did not need any short-arms or knives, only the machine guns or assault rifles, which also makes free a lot of space in hte rucksack.

A normal commando landed from plane or a chopper, with 4 days food ratio and with standard set of weapon can carry about 300 bullets, 6 grenades , plastite or mines.

The guys we are talking about could easily carry 900 bullets(the Kalashnikov fully-loaded disk has 30 bullets),6 or 8 grenades,plastite or mines.

Quite an arsenal!

And to add to this: the guys were sitting under cover,in the buildings,and also cared to protect themselves with the “human shield” of hostages.

Now, multiply this for 12-and you will understand( maybe, although I am not sure),why it took so much time to the Indian Army and ATS forces to neutralize the bandits.

“6. Won't you believe this kind of a barbaric nasty killings a can only be done by a group which is motivated by ultra-racism such as RSS, VHP, Isralai military etc.?”

No,I won´t. Such a barbaric nasty killings can more probably be done by the same kind of people who could in cold blood kill 3000 civilian Americans, 450 civilian Spanish,and over 200 of civilian English.By the same kind of people who could in cold blood kill 200 tourists in Bali and cut the head before the camera to a 70 years-old absolutely innocent man from South Korea.To put it short:by MUSLIMS.who, besides,are well-known for their close ties with Hitler´s Germany and for their deep admiration of Hitler´s ideas and methods.

The crap about “what the Indian films usually promote” is not worth answering.

There were nowhere near 60 terrorists. It was between 10-15.

CHECK THE FACTS

Let´s count together .

 After landing in Colaba, the terrorists moved north and attacked the Colaba police station, possibly as a single unit. The attack on the police command and control node disrupted the police response and pinned down police units.

 From the Colaba police station, the assault force broke up into smaller teams and fanned out to hit secondary targets throughout Mumbai. At least one police van was hijacked and the terrorists drove around the city, firing automatic weapons from the truck at random targets.

 In all, 10 locations, including the police station, were attacked. The assault teams struck at vital centers where foreigners were likely to congregate: the five-star Taj Mahal and Trident hotels, the Nariman House (an orthodox Jewish center), the Cama hospital, the CSP train station, a cinema, and a cafe were all struck almost simultaneously. Two Taxis were also blown up near the airport in the north and the docks in the southern part of the city.

Gunmen opened fire indiscriminately in the hotel lobbies and at the cafe, cinema, train station, and the Jewish center. At the hotels, gunmen then sought out foreigners holding American, British, and Israeli passports.

More than 200 hostages were reported to have been held at the Taj and scores more at the Trident and the Jewish center. Mumbai was under siege as police and counterterrorism officials struggled to regain control of the city.

If all struck at the same time at the cafe,then other targets were attacked by groups,right?It means 5 targets,and the number of attackers per every target must be 3 gunmen(if,as you say,there were maximum 15 attackers) .Do you think that a group of 3 gunmen can successfully subdue the Taj Mahal and Trident hotels, each of which has over 300 rooms in 30 floors?10 floors per every terrorist! Just imagin that you are the terrorist.Would you be able to control 10 floors of Taj Mahal?And  HOLD THEM  FOR ALMOST 30 HOURS AGAINST THE COMMANDOS ATTACKS?

The Indian police estimates the number of attackers at least in 25 persons.And I think this number will soon grow.

What do you mean by "they were able to escape and re-emerge"???The hotelss were blocked hermetically by hte police and Army forces,all the entrances and exits were under control of the snipers,the choppers controlled them from the air.How could te terrorists "escape"?And ,what is even more improabable;how could they re-emerge?

Have you ever seen how the commandos work during the assault?You would not be able to escape even in your sweetest dream,and about "re-emerging"...I do not even want to discuss the possibility of the terrorsts re-entering the hotel after it was assaulted. It´s impossible.

No,JJL,the assault troops did not enter the hotels and then just left,leavng it to the terrorists again.And the fact that it took so much ime to prepare the assault only means that the terrorists in hte hotels were,

1.numerous enough;

2.took a lot of hostages(which is impossible for a group of 3 persons) ,making the human shield out of them .

3.mined te possible ways of entrance of the assaulting troops(which is also impossible for a group of 3 men because they will have to simultaniously control the hostages ,control  the movement of the government troos - and mine the accesses.

They were more than 3 men ,JJl.

There were nowhere near 60 terrorists. It was between 10-15.

CHECK THE FACTS

Dear anrazi.

You,evidently,overestimate yout importance for the West .Until yout crazy coreligionists started their attacks on the West , 99% of the populatin of Europe and America didn´t *** about you and your religion The Westerners started to get interested in Islam only after the 9/11 attack.So,if you really think that the West does not sleep at night,thinking about how "to defame islam" better,you´re even sillier.

"Ok, tell what the entire Indian intelligence and other security system were doing while those 60 terrorist entering the city, studying the entire environment, carrying enough weapons in their rucksacks etc".

OK,I shall tell you.3 or 4 persons enter India absolutely legally,as tuorists for example,without any arms and other suspicious objects.They registrate in the hotel,and live a normal life of a tourist,visiting different places in the city,making photos of Taj Mahal - and preparing the information for the hit squad.In about two weeks,when the information is ready,the group of gunmen land from the small boats.They can bring the arms with them,there is quite enough space in the rucksacks for an assault rigfle,cartridges,grenades and mines.Or they can take the arms from the previously prepared hiding places,where they will be placed in advance by another group.Such hiding places will be at least three,in case one or two of them is found by the police.I,personally,think they brought the weapons with them.The version that the gunmen used the rooms in the hotel as a store house is a total nonsense,because the rooms are cleansed by the room maids every day,and the chances that some of them will find the weapons are too high.

After that - all is simple.

Look how easy!And there is absolutely no need for some "tremendous support" from some "powerful Government agency".

"Israel would do anything, even kil thier own people, if they want to defame Muslim and Islam".

Israel would not put in danger the life of the last shabby mongrel, let alone its people,for such a stupidity as " defaming Islam".Besides,you Muslims are doing the work of defaming Islam so well that no additional efforts are needed.

In all this story,there is only one thing that makes me hesitant in putting the blame on the Pakisani ISI. Any operation of the Intelligence pursues some very concrete goal.What was it?To kill 200 Indians and 20 Westerners?Nonsense.The people who work in the Intelligence are mostly very pragmatic,and they would not start such an operation just for the sake of killing some 200 Indians and 20 Europeans and Israelis. It´s also evident(and the people in the ISI understand it much better than you or me) that some of the attackers will be taken alive(as it happened),and believe me,they will tell at the interrogations all they know; let´s leave the "heroic" stories about how the heroes clenched their teeth under torture and did not say a word for Hollywood.In the real life,if the interrogatory officers are free to use any methods, a man they interrogate would start "to sing" in maximum 2 minutes. In this case,the role of ISI immediately becomes evident, and no Secret Service wants to be exposed (that is why it´s called "Secret "Service) , and even less it wants to figure as teh mastermind of such a bloody and senseless operation.

SO,the Pakistani Intelligence was ready to be caught by the hand as the mastermind of the attack on peaceful citizens of the neighbouing country and on the Westerners,was ready to put Pakistan on the verge of a new war with India(and the chances of Pakistan in this war look today very weak) and to make their entire country the outlaw - for what?

For killing 200 Indians and 20 Westerners?

Something does not fit in.

Of course,the attackers were Muslims.Most probably,they were Pakistanis.

[Edited by: moderator on Dec 5, 2008 5:43 PM]

"The only way that we can fight the demon of terrorism is by revealing the truth and thus uniting the people across religions and nations for our common struggle against imperialism and for a global human society based on the principles of secularsim, democracy and social justice. "

  On one side, the author states the truth of the ones who promote secularism, then he advocates it.

Allah protect him if he was saying it out of fear of being targeted by the secularists against whom he was talking.

Authubillahir-Rubbil-'Alameen:

    Islam is already the Supreme religion/way of life. We don't need to fight to make it so for Allah made it so.

One thing you should realize about religion is:

    The creator doesn't benefit or lose anything by us following or not following the guidance given to us by him. It is we who benefit or lose.

    Allah created us, he can create others to replace us.

This discussion distracts from the matter of the post.

       Muslims have been scapegoated or used in these attacks, by the agencies charged with the protection of the attacked.

"I have heard from a friend in Mumbai that ... the ATS (Anti Terrorist Squad) having interrogated high ranking Hindu spiritual leaders in connection with past bombings (that were undertaken to discredit Moslems). 

"I heard a fence-rider say  that a Mexican told a cowboy named Jake over at Pidgin's store on the Nueces that he heard that Black Bill had been seen in Matamoras by a sheepman's cousin two weeks ago.'(O.Henry,The hiding of Black Bill) 

Jack, what a terrible thing to say. Have you seen them with your own eyes? Why did you assume that while the picture is not clear yet?

Ongoing investigations into some (past) terrorist attacks that were alternately blamed on Indian Muslims and Pakistan have shown that they were actually carried out by a Hindu terrorist network,"

Why not one can suspect shivsena or BJP

The usual blame is only a scape goat. What happened in near RSS headquarter- bombing, the same but found out to be handiwork of RSS themselves. RSS/BJP/Shiv sena is losing their identity eversince Congress came to power, cooperation with Pakistan increased and are desperately looking to review their fortunes. Last week show of rowdism by shivsena in Mumbai was the prelude to the bombings, which causes antiminority sentiments, thereby achieving their goals. Recent reports of link of Advani and Sushma with underworld gangs to be strongly scrutinized in view of Mumbai bombings. May God give solace to departed souls and enlighten the Government Machinery to think positive and do an unbiased investigation to find the real culprits and expose to the world the real faces behind this dastardly act.

Mumbai attack is as grave as Gandhiji’s killing and Babri Masjid demolition

  Renowned journalist and human rights activist Mr. Amrish Mishra expressed his strong reaction over the terrorist attack and said that this conspiracy was hatched by Israel’s Mussed and notorious communal party RSS. This attack is as grave as the killing of Mahatma Gandhi and demolition of Babri Masjid. The same communal forces are involved in this conspiracy also. Talking to Siasat late last night from Mumbai, Mr. Mishra claimed that the killing of brave ATS officers who were in the concluding stage of the investigations of Malegaon blast which could have shown the real face of the saffron parties and the beginning of the firing from Nariman House where substantial number of Jews are living, clearly shows that this was an anti-national act of terror with Israel’s Missal’s hand in grave because this kind of attack is just not possible by RSS alone. Whatever has happened the entire last night in Mumbai could be concluded that it was the joint ‘effort’ of Mussed with RSS. The irony of it is that those ATS officers, who were assigned the duties of Malegaon blasts, were on the verge of making their report final and all three of them were eliminated. They are Mr. Hemant Karkare, DIG Ashok Kale and encounter specialist Vijay Salazar. Their killing has proved that it was the handy work of the anti-national forces. This is also equivalent to the killing of the officer Mr. Sharma who was shot dead at Batla House encounter. Mr. Amrish Mishra added that Nariman house has many Jews tenants and the beginning of the firing from there create many doubts. He said that he was watching the TV and clearly saw that Mr. Hemant Karkare was wearing the helmet to get ready for the confrontation and imagine my astonishment that after half an hour, I got the news that Mr. Hemant Karkare was killed. Circumstances would take what turn, no one can say at present. He also said that after the attack, some miscreants had come on the road with saffron flags and chanting anti-Muslim slogans but people drove them out.

 Those who are very much in touch with the situation don’t seem to believe that these attacks are the handy work of any Muslim terrorist organization because people can no longer be taken for a ride. They know who are behind these attacks. He opined that Union Home Minister Shivraj Patil should immediately tender his resignation. He had links with RSS in the past. On taking responsibility by Deccan Mujahedeen, Mr. Mishra said neither Home Minister nor chief minister had confirmed this.

 Only some Hindi channels had given the news of Deccan Mujahedeen. Many Gujaratis had expressed their fear while talking to TV channels that at Nariman House, the number of Jews tenants is increasing day by day which is a threat because their (Jews) activities are suspicious. In this regard, a police complaint was also lodged with the police. They are of the opinion that if police had taken action against, this situation as of now, would not have arisen at all.

Sang Parivar doublespeak: Villain in life, hero in death

  MUMBAI: The heroic death of Maharashtra’s Anti Terrorism Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare in counter-terror operations has left the BJP-Shiv Sena combine with egg on its face. On Friday, Narendra Modi, BJP’s poster-boy chief minister and Hindutva mascot, paid lofty tributes to Karkare and other senior cops who lost their lives in the counter attack. But before his death on duty, Mr Karkare and his colleagues at the ATS were at the receiving end of almost a slanderous attack not only by BJP and Shiv Sena leaders, but also by several Sangh Parivar organisations for the ongoing ATS probe into the Malegaon blasts. In fact, Mr Modi himself had attacked the ATS for the “biased” probe into the Malegaon blasts. So much so that the BJP and Sangh Parivar organisations had personally blamed Karkare for what they claimed “implicating the Hindu religious leaders and outfits” in the probe. But the two parties are now singing eulogies to the valour demonstrated by the departed ATS chief. Ironically, the Shiv Sena had even called a Maharashtra bandh on December 1 to protest against the ATS probe and express solidarity with the accused — Sadhvi Pragya Singh and lieutenant colonel Shrikant Purohit — for their involvement in the Malegaon blasts. “It is supreme irony that the same BJP is now paying tributes to Karkare and is talking of helping his family,” union minister of state for home Shriprakash Jaiswal said on Friday. But the double-speak demonstrated by the BJP and Shiv Sena could be more dangerous for the combine than a mere political embarrassment. Mr Jaiswal said the agencies probing the terror attack in Mumbai would also look into the fact that Mr Karkare was on “target by some people who had opposed his probe for about 15 days before November 26.”

No doubt  there are some well organized hindu terrorists in India.

May be they are behind these act. Let wait and see.

Guys

People are still being killed - show some respect.

Wait until the facts are known.

speculations adds to the evil of the world.

John Galt

The lone perpetrator caught is a Pakistani national from Faridkot. He has already told police that the militants came from Pakistan around one month before.

It is likely that they were trained by ISI. This is already known.

The lone perpetrator caught is a Pakistani national from Faridkot. He has already told police that the militants came from Pakistan around one month before.

It is likely that they were trained by ISI. This is already known.

  If this information is confirmed,that may mean a new war between India and Pakistan,if only the Pakistani´s government  will not prove beyond any doubt that it knew nothing about the plan of the ISI,and will not punish those who organized and planned this operation.

One thing is not clear,though.It´s evident that at least one or two out of 60 who took part in the attack will be taken alive.It´s also evident that at the interrogations they will tell all they know,because the interrogators will have their hands free and will not  be shy to use any methods on them to make them tell the truth.

The men working in the ISI are not fools,they understand this much better than you or me.How could they send the attackers on this mission,knowing in advance that it can provoke a new war between India and Pakistan?Or it was their goal?

Theoretically the govt is supposed to have charge over the ISI. But this is not the case, elements within the ISI are extremists but the govt cant control them.

The assasination of Benazhir Bhutto was authorised by people within the ISI.

As far as I could judge by the media,in Pakistan under Musharraf a bird could not fly without his permission.And you say that he did not control ISI,and that the assasination of Benazhir Bhutto was authorised by people within the ISI.It means that the Gen.Musharraf did not know about any plan of Bhutto´s assesination,and it´s only the bad guys from ISI who killed her?

So,ISI is bad-and the Gvernment is good?

Not that I put in doubtwhat yo say,you,evidently,know the situation in Pakistan better than .But I simply can not understand how the Intelligence Service in the totalitatian state(and Pakistan is whatever except being " a democracy") is out of control of the government of this totalitarian state

The ISI isnt completly bad. What I mean is that within it there is bad. But it is impossible to root out the "bad guys" from within the organisation.

Likewise the govt isnt good. But they are not related to extremism. However, the latest President has spent time in jail on corruption charges, so they also are difficult to trust.

Please,explain,what do you mean by "it´s impossible to root out the bad guys from withing the organization" We are not talking about the boyscout group.We are talking about the Intelligence Service of Pakistan,which is considered to be pretty  good.Any Intelligence Service has special  methods "to root out the bad guys",and believe me,these methods are very effective.

Any member of the Intelligece Service is under constant and strict control of the Interum Service, any member of the Intelligence Service is "checked" periodically,which includes ,among other things,taping of all his phones,as well as the phones of his relatives,scrutinizing his bank accounts,controlling his movements during certain period of time,controlling his contacts,and many other unpleasant things.

If it just occurs to someone to start to play tricks with the Intelligence Service he is workin for,it´s not IF he will be caught-it´s only the question of "WHEN" he will be caught.

And you say that the ISI can not "root out the bad guys within the organization".

Why?