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American and Arab Youth Share Ideas
Is Iraq Better Off Now?
(Part Two)

December 15, 2005

This is the second entry in the series American and Arab Youth Share Ideas. In an e-mail-based dialogue, sponsored by IslamOnline.net’s Muslim Affairs section, American student Evan Hays and Iraqi-Palestinian student Khalid Jarrar reignite the debate on the morality and necessity of the Iraq war and occupation, expressing their opinions as to whether democracy is taking root in the country.

What do you think of this dialogue? Which argument do you support? E-mail us your feedback and comments: mideast@islamonline.net *

October 18, 2005

Dear Khalid,

Thank you very much for your most recent e-mail, Khalid. While it is obvious that we are coming from very different positions, I believe that we can find some common ground. It is clear to me that you are very much against the American actions inside Iraq, so much so that you believe you have God and history on your side. These are without a doubt two very powerful things.

First of all, I am very hesitant to ever place God on sides, and I cannot and will not say where God stands on this issue. While I do not know what God thinks about this situation or any situation in politics, the best way that I know of to find His will, is to look at the details. Are people being killed? What are the intentions of those in power in this situation? What are the possible benefits on the ground level that can come from this? How are normal people being affected? Has the spirit of the people become more hateful and violent? Have people been more or less able to worship in freedom and sincerity? Your answers to these sort of questions are the ones that I cherish the most and take to heart.

Regime change has always been difficult in Muslim countries.

For example, the lack of electricity and other necessities for the people is definitely a negative result of the war, and a situation that will be remedied soon. However, I also must strongly disagree with some of your comments about who is doing the killing. It is not the “occupation” that is taking lives right now, although I can accept the idea that leftover bombs from the initial stage of the war are still causing injuries. It is militants, many from other countries, who are being misled, by people who call themselves imams, into thinking that killing Americans and all those who agree with them is a way to protect the Ummah. Again, I must be clear that I disagree, admittedly from a distance since I have not been to Iraq myself. But I will not believe that Americans are setting off bombs that kill hundreds of Iraqis, as we see in the news all too often. Now, if (as I hope) you are not claiming this, but rather are saying that this is the result of the American war, then I would shift your words a bit and say that this is part of the very difficult process by which “every democratic country goes through till it revolts, and achieves its granted democracy, a natural process that results in a democratic state where people rule themselves by electing governments that represent them.”

If you are true to your Iraqi roots, you will not believe your own press that claims that “occupations never last, and are always forced to leave.”

As a side note to this, regime change has always been difficult in Muslim countries (as an example look at how long the Abbasid regime continued even though for a good amount of time it was effectively ruled by Persian warlords). In many ways, although I don’t want to make a specific historical parallel, the most important thing to those in Muslim countries in the Middle East is the preservation of the status quo—something that is certainly not always a good thing. In today’s global world, the United States simply cannot, and will not look the other way when someone like Saddam Hussein is destroying the lives of those in his country (Kurds, Shias) as well as those outside of his country (Iranians, Kuwaitis, and others).

Another thing that I definitely appreciated about your last note was your emphasis on history. Being a history major myself, I often look to the past to find answers for the current time, and this is often a very effective and proper way of doing things. Unfortunately, I disagree with some of your interpretations of the past—particularly in Iraq. If you are true to the history, then you will recognize that leaders and regimes have come and gone in Iraq just as in any other country; Iraq is no exception. If you are true to your Iraqi roots, you will not believe your own press that claims that “except that in Iraq, occupations never last, and are always forced to leave.” This is a vain hope not grounded in reality.

Finally, I certainly do appreciate the long cultural and historical heritage of Iraq. For a good length of time under the Abbasids, Baghdad was the center of the world. I do think it is a shame, however, if you choose to view Saddam Hussein’s rule as a culmination of this history. I would choose to see him as a blip on the radar, and the future of Iraq will be a chance for Iraqis to reclaim their true heritage as thinkers, learners, communicators, peacemakers, and members of the free world.

*****

October 27, 2005

Dear Evan,

I do believe, without hesitation, that God and history are on our side, the side of the illegally occupied and oppressed people, and as I doubtlessly know that, I want to thank you for the questions you raised.

Are people being killed? Yes, in large numbers—by military operations launched on whole cities; by terrorists, who operate only because of the occupation; and also by mistakes made by resistance fighters, who resist the occupation, which would never have happened if the occupation hadn’t existed.

What are the intentions of those in power in this situation? This is an extremely important question, and it is also unimportant at the same time. It is important because it helps you understand the situation in a better way, and not important because, after all, actions, not intentions, are what matter.

Let’s talk about intentions. When you look at the invasion since the first day, every small detail tells you about the kind of intentions the people in power have,

- Let’s start with the sanctions: 12 years of sanctions killed over one million children and destroyed the country’s economy. The sanctions isolated Iraq, enabling Saddam to steal more and more of Iraq’s wealth. Without worrying about the international community, he continued to build his palaces, one after one, and to import the most luxurious materials for from all over the world. It was Iraqis who were being hurt throughout the sanctions’ 12 years—as if the United States put us in one of those old underground prisons and forgot about us.

- Then the invasion started, and you seem horribly insensitive when you refuse to understand what I am saying: CLUSTER BOMBS WERE DROPPED ON CIVILIAN NEIGHBORHOODS—and I am just trying to make sure that you read that line—bombs that continued to kill civilians, rip them into parts and take their lives away.

- All governmental buildings were stolen. Hundreds, if not thousands, of eyewitnesses say that American soldiers opened the big gates for thieves themselves, using their vehicles. The exception was the ministry of oil, which was protected by the US—makes you wonder about good intentions, doesn’t it?

- Since I want to make a conversation rather than state facts I believe in, I am not going to talk about the torture that took place in Abu Ghraib and other places, as a result of orders from the top, but at least I am going to say that the atmosphere was set in a way that allowed for such practices to take place. Then the punishment inflicted upon those involved in the torture—well... the least you can say is that the punishment was much less severe than the crimes; the Iraqi people's dignity and humanity obviously aren’t that valuable. Not to mention that none of the top officials was charged with anything.

What are the possible benefits on the ground that can come from this?

Benefits:

- Create an American base in the region, close to Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia

- Secure Israel

- Secure one of the most important resources in the region, not only in terms of oil, but also a bunch of other natural resources]

-Create a market for the huge corporations that make weapons, and then the other corporations that build what the first ones destroyed

- Getting even, revenging for Bush senior.

- Maybe also religious reasons I am afraid—Bush always tries to show that he is implementing the Will of God.

How are normal people being affected? Over 75% of the population have become jobless. We lost security, water, electricity, and food rations. We are more divided than ever; the country is about to get literally divided, on sectarian basis, into small countries.

Has the spirit of the people become more hateful and violent? Much more: towards the West in general and towards America in particular; that’s when we talk about hate. As to violence, the most peaceful people are now gun experts. More people are joining the resistance. There are new militias in the country that never existed or never operated inside Iraq. The country is open to any terrorist in the world—and to the intervention of any other country.

Have people been more or less able to worship in freedom and sincerity? Much less, now anyone who goes to a mosque is a suspect. You can’t go to the morning prayer either because it is held during curfew time or just because you are too insane to leave your house at 4 am. You can’t go to sunset and night prayers either, because it’s not safe. Christians are afraid to go to churches because someone blew up a number of churches, something that never happened in Iraq before.

It is militants, many from other countries, who are being misled by people who call themselves Imams into thinking that killing Americans and all those who agree with them is a way to protect the Ummah.

Well, this is one of the lies that the occupation tries to tell the world in order to make it look like the Iraqis love the occupation, and that it is outsiders who are responsible for the resistance. This is totally untrue. You can tell from the ratio of non-Iraqi Arabs to Iraqis arrested and imprisoned by the Americans. For example, the place I was imprisoned in had 70 detainees; only two of them were not Iraqi. Additionally, a secret poll conducted by the British army and leaked to the Sunday Telegraph shows that:

Millions of Iraqis believe that suicide attacks against British troops are justified, a secret military poll commissioned by senior officers has revealed. The poll, undertaken for the Ministry of Defence and seen by The Sunday Telegraph, shows that up to 65 per cent of Iraqi citizens support attacks and fewer than one percent think Allied military involvement is helping to improve security in their country. It demonstrates for the first time the true strength of anti-Western feeling in Iraq after more than two and a half years of bloody occupation.

The nationwide survey also suggests that the coalition has lost the battle to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, which Tony Blair and George W Bush believed was fundamental to creating a safe and secure country.

I strongly doubt the 65% figure though, and believe it's much higher, basing this on my personal opinion. And don't forget that these numbers came through the Iraqi government, which isn't exactly the most honest and straight government in the world.

Among other findings, the poll also concludes that 82 percent of Iraqis are against the continuing occupation, and that millions of Iraqis believe that suicide attacks on occupation forces are justified.

... then I would shift your words a bit and say that this is part of the very difficult process by which “every democratic country goes through till it revolts, and achieves its granted democracy, a natural process that results in a democratic state where people rule themselves by electing governments that represent them.

Ok, then please don’t change my words. Occupations are never a good step towards anywhere. Would you be saying that if the French were occupying your country? Funny how you look at occupation when your country is occupying, and not being occupied. You are defending occupation while you don't have to. Just being American doesn't hold you to the responsibility of automatically defending what your government does, otherwise you would be personally responsible for its actions; something you really don't want.

In today's global world, the United States simply cannot and will not look the other way when someone like Hussein is destroying the lives of those in his country (Kurds, Shias) as well as those outside of his country (Iranians, Kuwaitis, etc.).

First of all, Saddam hurt all Iraqis, including the Sunnis, and including those from his home town. Sunnis were oppressed as much as anyone else, and the fact that the secret service and Saddam's inner circle were Sunnis doesn't mean that the rest of the Sunnis were happy or privileged. There were attempted revolutions against Saddam that originated in the Sunni-dominated Al-Anbar province. Read about the revolution of Al-Madhloom, about how many Sunni scholars Saddam had killed, and how many Sunnis were jailed, tortured, or killed. Saddam simply killed anyone and everyone who opposed him. He hated the Shiites more, that is true, but that still doesn't mean the rest of the people were pampered. This is just one of the lies that the occupation is telling the world to justify its presence: that the Sunnis are fighting the occupation because they led privileged lives under Saddam.

Well, the part where you said "the United States simply cannot and will not look the other way when someone like Hussein is destroying the lives of those in his country (Kurds, Shiites) as well as those outside of his country (Iranians, Kuwaitis, etc.)," makes me laugh, with all due respect, and makes me cry at the same time.

It's depressing how short Americans' memory is. Just let me remind you that the reason behind this war was the weapons of mass destruction (WMD), the ones that were never found, and alleged relations with al-Qaeda, which were proved wrong; nothing else. Worst of all, did you forget that the Americans gave Saddam the green light to attack Kuwait, and supported him on all levels when he attacked Iran? The American government actually gave Saddam the weapons and the information needed for the war. You haven't read that in the textbooks in your history major have you?

And where was the USA when hundreds of thousands were slaughtered in Rwanda? Where was it when the Iraqis were dying under sanctions? Where was it when other wars and genocides were being perpetrated around the world? Why did they simply look the other way?

What you say makes me very sad, that a lot of decent good American people like yourself accept the whatever their government tells them and never question it, still believing in its "good intentions."

I know that all Americans, even the right wing and most of the war supporters, want what's best for Iraq. Its just makes their lives easier and helps them sleep better at night to simply believe that their government is an angel sent by God to liberate poor Iraqis from oppression, and simply deny everything that Iraqis and everyone else in the world, with the exception of their government, tells them about the terrible things they did and are doing in Iraq.

If you are true to the history, then you will recognize that leaders and regimes have come and gone in Iraq just as any other country, there is no difference.  If you are true to your Iraqi roots, you will not believe your own press that "except that in Iraq, occupations never last, and are always forced to leave". This is a vain hope not grounded in reality.

I just hope you didn’t mean that, or that I misunderstood you, and that you aren't saying that you want the occupation to stay on forever. Nevertheless, the history and the facts are just the easiest indicator: regardless of the numerous occupations that controlled Iraq, and controlled Baghdad since it was built by Al-Mansour, and regardless of all their equipment and abilities and propaganda, none of them lasted. Even the last occupation, the British occupation, left. You just need to read about how that happened and about all the other occupations, to understand the future of the American occupation.

I do think it is a shame, however, if you choose to see Saddam Hussein's rule as a culmination of this history.

This is another lie that the US government is telling the world: whoever is anti-occupation is pro-Saddam.

Where exactly did I say that I think Saddam Hussein was good? He was one of the worst leaders that ever led Iraq, but that doesn't give America the right to invade Iraq and destroy it and occupy it, does it? Why Saddam? Mubarak in Egypt isn't much better. Actually, none of the Arab world's leaders are much better. But it just so happens that Saddam was the only one who refused to normalize relations with the USA and Israel, a stance I am sure a very, very small minority in the whole Arab world would disagree with, including the populations of countries that have "good" relations with Israel and the US. That's actually the reason behind this war.

I am not against cooperation with the US when it's setup as a relationship between equals, but not when it's the way it is in the Arab world now, as leaders (the US administration) and followers (Arab governments). And I oppose any relations with the Zionist state, because we don't recognize it as a country.

Finally, I want to thank you for your hope, which I do believe is sincere, that Iraq will rise up again, rebuild what was destroyed, and have a fruitful future after the occupation ends.


*Your comments are subject to editing and maybe used in IslamOnline.net’s online or print material.

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