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 Iraq, pacifism and the UN: Debunking nonsense      
 Name: Fresh Thinking
12/3/2003
(6:18) GMT
Reply
WHAT‘S WRONG WITH: “I’LL SUPPORT WAR IF THE UN APPROVES?” 

Ask residents of Rwanda, Bosnia and Kosovo about what that 
means--suicide!  Like it or not, that's what past 
experience with this approach suggests.  

Historically the UN only "succeeds" at peacekeeping after 
people have been burned.  In fact, in Bosnia it's 
peacekeepers sometimes actively assisted genocide, as in 
the case of UN troops who would open up huge floodlights 
on civilians trying to flee an encircled Sarajevo at 
night.  That made it easy for Serbs to pick them off.  
Women, kids, men--it made no difference and UN troops 
would repeat the same act every night.

At one point, the Serbs grabbed UN peacekeepers and 
chained them to their artillery and tanks as shields to 
prevent bombing when the UN threatend action.  Naive 
peacekeepers voluntarteering as human shields who thought 
they were going there to protect schools and hospitals 
(unnecessary because never American targets but these 
people start believing thier own rhetoric after awhile) 
find themselves assigned to oil fields, power plants and 
local palaces.  Like volunteers in Spain in the 30s 
disenchanted as they watched Russian-controlled 
republicans execute rivals such as democratic socialists 
on the same side, some have become disenchanted and 
decided to leave which isn't as easy as getting there.  
The "keep the faith regardless of evidence" types will 
remain in place as they did in Spain while the Orwells and 
Koestler's will leave.

PACIFISM AND CONCERN FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE 

To oppose action now out of  “concern for the Iraqi 
people“ is to offer the alternative of Saddam & Sons 
indefinitely.   You could have made the same case against 
liberating France and the rest of Europe in World War II.  
History suggests that people faced with the prospect of 
living indefinitely under a brutal occupier will always 
take their chances on a short war if provided they get out 
from under.  Again, see Kosovo and Afghanistan where the 
same “concerns” for their welfare were cited as reasons 
for not acting.

When it comes to willingness to use force, sometimes “a 
stitch in time” does indeed “save nine.”  
Hitler astutely sized up and exploited the power of 
pacifism.  Failure to stop him in the thirties while 
Germany was militarily disadvantaged  led to 50 million 
deaths in World War alone   The war in turn made possible 
a Soviet superpower, a Cold War and an Israeli state, 
along with all later repercussions.    

Like Hitler, Saddam recognizes the power of pacifism and 
is betting the house on it.   Unfortunately for him, a few 
nations with the wherewithal to stop him refuse to succumb 
to the bandwagon logic.   Chirac chooses to imitate 
Daladier, but Brits and the Americans have learned their 
lesson.   

THE SOVIET COLLAPSE AS HOPE

Some pacifists who denounce Saddam as despicable suggest 
that he can be ousted in other ways but seem to engage in 
wishful thinking.  

--"Let the Arabs oust him," they say but the Arabs lack 
the means.  Only the US has it and only the US can do it.

--"Let the Iraqis overthrow him," they say--an equally 
improbable prospect given the repressive technology 
available to a modern state with the will to use it.

--"Look at what happened to the Soviet State in l989," 
they say noting that it can happen in Iraq.

 They also conveniently three important things:

l. Part of what made the Eastern European collapse 
possible was the fact that the governments there were 
imposed from outside and never enjoyed much popular 
support, no matter what official propaganda said.  The 
number of internal beneficiaries with a stake in the 
regime as well as the benefits they got were far smaller 
than under Iraq's regime.

2. The latter revolutions could not have succeeded were it 
not for the presence of Mikhail Gorbachev and his 
reluctance to use the old means to preserve the empire.
In Iraq's case, there is every reason to believe that 
without outside intervention, Saddam will remain in power 
until he dies, to be followed by another monster in one of 
Saddam's sons--a situation that more closely resembles 
that of North Korea than what happened in Syria after 
Assad's death.  What makes the prospect of ouster even 
worse than in North Korea is that Iraq's oil wealth and 
the willingness of certain powers to deal with him limit 
how far economic collapse can go.  Insiders will continue 
to live well under Saddam and Son and there are far more 
of them, all with much to lose if anything changes.

3. It took 72 years for the Soviet Union to collapse along 
with states under it's control.  Even then, they could 
have made it last for a long time if they had the will, as 
Saddam & Sons surely will.  In the meantime, multi-
millions died and far more suffered in gulags.  What 
pacifists seem to be proposing is that Iraqis live like 
this into the indefinite future in the hopes of a l989 
scenario someday.  Why shouldn't Iraqis have peace, 
prosperity and freedom from terror now, REGARDLESS of the 
motives the US may have for liberating Iraq?  In any case, 
it beats the motives of the French and Russians whose 
policies seem to have more to do with preserving economic 
arrangements with Saddam than with idealism.
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All Replies to Iraq, pacifism and the UN: Debunking nonsense (Total Number 9) Reply
 Title Name Replies Date(GMT)
 Iraq wont be free Elkaputo 1(15:18) 17/3/2003
 A Very Sad Day B.M.Zaheer 0(8:38) 17/3/2003
 You talk as if kid killing and slaughter of the innocent Dons 0(18:2) 16/3/2003
 Regarding the United Nations SaharanPrince 0(19:13) 15/3/2003
 To Fresh Thinking Generous 0(6:54) 14/3/2003
 Israel Defence Forces use Palestinian kids as Human Shields Impact786 0(5:0) 14/3/2003
 Wake-up Americans - See whose war these Zionist terrorists want you to fight. Kamirza 0(15:19) 13/3/2003
 another great post... R1111 1(14:4) 12/3/2003
 this human shield action jta 3(8:31) 12/3/2003

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